2014 Stelvio NTX poor low speed running

Only had my Stelvio NTX since 1st March and to date have covered a miserable 820 miles but should soon have a few longish journies coming up that will help the milage climb, most of the milage to date is commuting.
Generally VERY happy with the bike and it is very enjoyable to ride (a few niggling items most of which are now sorted but nothing to write home about) apart from the low speed running.

I have read many times that they aren’t always the smoothest of bikes at low speed and/or small throttle openings and I can say that mine is defeinately in this camp but what I consider to be the most worrying is the tendency not to idle and instead to cut out while warming up. When I first start the bike up it idles fine and indeed is ok as I approch the first couple of junctions (both within a few hundred metres) but from then on and until it is properly warmed up there is no idling. This means that when approching a junction I have to ensure the throttle is kept partially open otherwise I am juggling the clutch & starter button while trying to navigate the junction. When hot it is not an issue.
It has just gone in for the initial service and they said they have never come across this before but will try re-loading the fuel mapping and also check a sensor (can’t recall which one was mentioned), I should have the result of this on Wednesday when I pick the bike up.

Anyone else suffered this particular problem (the cutting out I mean)?

Hi Litch, Have a 2010 Stelvio and when I first got it I found it to be very lumpy at low speed. Didn’t quite cut out but was close on several occasions. I took it to Mel Robinson who tinkered about with the settings(throttle bodies I believe) and it was a like a new bike. Sounds like it may just need adjusting by someone who knows what they are doing.

Litch, have a look on the Guzzitech website, you’ll find some good advise on there.

I have a 2011 NTX, had a few issues earlier but running great know.

You’re bike cold running, there is a stepper valve which controls the cold running, but like you’ve mentioned it might just need a new re-map
It’s a shame there are a brill bike.

Marshy.

Picked it up this evening and it is no better.

Dealer said they checked the mapping & throttle position sensor but all was ok, they then took it for a test-ride and found no issues.
I picked it up and it stalled on me about 400M from the dealership, it was then running what I would consider to be quite unevenly until I reached the main road by when it had warmed up considerably and was much better. I didn’t go straight back as I thought I had better give it a few more runs but I can feel a re-visit in the next few weeks.

Thicko question (sorry) ~ doesn’t this have a fast idle lever to help until it’s fully warmed up?

Hi Litch,

Very sorry to hear you are having these problems with your new pride and joy. I am a bit worried as I am in the middle of negotiating the purchase of a NTX of my own. I can confirm that the demonstrator I rode which had 300 miles on the clock was started from cold and ran without any issues. At what mileage did yours start to exhibit problems?

Yours,

Richard

“Thicko question (sorry) ~ doesn’t this have a fast idle lever to help until it’s fully warmed up?”

Not that i’ve found!
It starts on the button and idles on initially, it is only after I have ridden for a couple of hundred metres that it decides it won’t idle any more. As you get further along the road and the engine really begins to warm up it is ok again.

“Very sorry to hear you are having these problems with your new pride and joy. I am a bit worried as I am in the middle of negotiating the purchase of a NTX of my own. I can confirm that the demonstrator I rode which had 300 miles on the clock was started from cold and ran without any issues. At what mileage did yours start to exhibit problems?”

The demo bike I rode (35-miles on the clock) was fine and indeed I don’t recall mine starting to do this until I had covered 200-300 miles.

Hi Litch,

Thinking logically:-

  1. A cold engine needs a richer mixture
  2. The ECU has full mixture control by varying the injector pulse width
  3. Your ECU gets it right at stone cold and hot
  4. So either the mapping is wrong or the ECU is getting faulty information
    5 TPS seems to be ruled out as the running is OK at hot and cold
    6 Faulty temperature sensor?
    7 Faulty lambda sensor?
    The lambda sensor (two on this model I believe) are more to do with emission control than optimal performance. You could try disconnecting them. The ECU should then substitute an average value for the sensor. Worst that can happen is it runs even worse at which point you reconnect them!

Good luck,

Richard

Right so presumably the ‘electronic brain’ has to maintain idle at all temps. No human intervention. (Fast idle lever.) Also, if was OK up until 200 - 300 miles, then summink must have happened, like a sensor is giving wrong information. What about engine temp sensor needing taking off replacing with copper grease to ensure max. heat conductivity, as has been written elsewhere? Maybe in 200 - 300 miles a bit of corrosion has got in, same could be said for an electrical connector.
Mike H2014-05-10 14:35:02

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If it’s running rough talk to the dealer, if its
an intermittent fault, Be prepared to leave it and let the dealer use it,
If you have a good dealer they will know the common faults. You paid a lot of
money let the dealer sort it .
I have had two Stelvio’s My second has 48,000 miles on it, Never had cut out
issues, Always runs better after it allowed to get up to temperature 20 miles
at least, It was built to be ridden, I ride all year round and I keep the
garage ventilated to reduce condensation, Definitely a better bike after the 6,000
mile service. More miles better it runs




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Dave.
Are you the chap with the well loaded Stelvio that I was speaking to at Streffords back in January (I was over there for a test-ride on their Stelvio)?

I had come to the conclusion that it going to be a sensor and was hoping the dealer would carry out a bit more investigation but they took it for a run and said it didn’t happen to them. Trouble is it happens within such a specific distance from moving off that unless they had a series of junctions & roundabouts within a short distance of the workshop (or they warmed it up up before moving off) then it wouldn’t of happened anyway.
Anyone any idea where the temperature sensor is?

Tried out a Finebau box today and was mightily impressed.
Don’t know if it was conicidence but it didn’t stall when cold and low speed running was massively improved, it really did run as smooth as they say and there was no popping or banging on over-run. After removing the box I took it around the same circuit again (about 15-miles) and it was back to normal again, still fun to ride but now I know that it can be A LOT better.

Hi Litch,

If the Finebau box can sort it then the ECU and mapping are causing it! As I understand the Finebau unit is just an additional ECU which overrides the factory unit and makes better use of the data from the lambda sensors. Remember those sensors are just there to make your engine run lean (and hot!).

Good luck,
Richard

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Litch, If you got the bike from Streffords Nathan will try
and sort it out, I think the Finebau box fools the engine into making run richer
at curtain speeds heat etc. I would suspect sensor connection!!. Did you get
the bike from streffords?. If not are they Guzzi specialist as with respect, A
lot of multi franchise workshops work on piece work. And hence don’t have the interest, time and Knowledgeas a smaller dealer. Good luck I hope to see you around.






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Hi Litch, I’ve only just got to read the thread as I’ve been away for the last three weeks on my Stelvio, the good news being that it was totally reliable, very comfortable and great fun in 4500 miles, but basically, when I first got it new in December I had exactly the same problem, stalling at every opportunity until the engine was thoroughly warm. It went back after the first week to sort the problem, and after supposedly being sorted it stalled again just leaving the car park and approx another 10 times in the next mile or so. It was looked at again at the first service, but was just the same afterwards.

I then bought a Finebau and have not had much of a problem since, by which I mean that I no longer have a problem with stalling, although I can tell that whilst the engine is warming up the tickover can still be unstable. I’ve played with the Finebau settings and with a standard exhaust it’s currently set at 3 and works fine although I’ve set it as high as what I would estimate as being 3.4 at which point the pick up from a closed throttle was smoother still but I could tell it was running very slightly rich.

I don’t think mine is a rogue bike as this is my second twin lambda Stelvio and the first had precisely the same problem. Both were bought through Fowlers whom I know very well, but as it is due another service I think it will go to Moto Corsa and see what they can do.

Despite the tickover problem I love the bike, I know it is a bit quirky but it is a great ride with superb handling for a bike of its type and surprising performance.

Chris

No it is not an ecu just a means of fooling the ECU into running slightly richer at the bottom end.I have a similer device and it transforms the bike.

It just tweaks the Voltage from the O2 sensor. Makes computer think not quite enough petrol is going in.

Yes, that’s it.

I have spoken to my dealer (not Streffords) and they replied that they checked the mapping on the initial service and it was ok. They said that they also test-rode it (one journey only) and as it didn’t happen to them there is nothing else they can do, I left it with them to contact MG to see if this is a known problem.

I spoke direct to MG myself yesterday and they were very pleasent, speaking to a very nice lady (Shelly) I explained the symptoms and she then went away to speak to an engineer. She got back in touch within a couple of hours saying that I should try warming the bike up for differering lengths of time before starting off and see if the cutting out persists, depending on the result of this experiment they said that I should then book it into the supplying dealer and the MG engineer will look at it.

Also I can’t get away from my gut feeling that the poor MPG figure is somehow related, I am a spirited bimbler rather than a balls out nutter yet I only get 40MPG (accuratly checked by brimming each fill-up) which disapoints me.

Tried a Finebau box and although it helps a lot with the low speed running I decided for other reasons to send it back for refund.

Maybe it is just down to the engine being new & tight??? Possibly as the miles start to rack up the engine will loosen off and maintain revolutions when cold whereas at the moment it can’t quite manage it and just cuts out?
I guess it is a case of “watch this space”!

Hi Litch,

Several owners have reported to me that the engine runs better and better as the miles rack up. However, they did not mention any undue problem when the engine was new and tight. It would seem to be marketing suicide on behalf of MG to build an engine that was so tight that it ran poorly and thus put off all those potential new bike buyers.

Your engine is getting too lean a mixture at luke warm. Splits in the air pipe to the throttle bodies? Air filter incorrectly seated?

Good luck,

Richard

Hi Litch
After your comments re a tight engine and stalling I thought I’d do a little experimentation on my Stelvio. I fitted the Finebau at 900 miles straight after the first service and by about 1300 miles I’d got it set as I wanted it. Having now done just under 6,000 miles and being due for its next service I removed the Finebau entirely to see what the bike was like in standard trim.

Firstly, it didn’t stall on me once whilst warming up whereas when it was new and before fitting the Finebau it was likely to stall every time you pulled the clutch in until thoroughly warm. I did about 50 miles on it and out of town and above 4000 revs it was fine, but in traffic in town it was a pig to ride, impossible to go from a closed to open throttle without a severe and unpredictable jerk which forced me to ride it on the clutch, which is not my idea of how to ride a bike. It was also continually hunting on a neutral throttle at anything below 4000 revs, so without the Finebau fitted I don’t think I’d try to ride it in town.

Basically, as an air/oil cooled engine I think it has difficulty in coping with the fuel/air mixtures forced upon us these days, except that Honda seem able to manage it on the CB1100.

Chris