As a side note to this checking of my oils, when i was speaking to Millers I let them know the various specs of the oils recommended for the 8v Guzzi it happens one of the chaps there seems to know his bikes and picked up that all the standard oils (silkolene, putoline, I ride etc ) all had a common failing for use in this engine and that was they are all modern motorcycle oils designed for wet clutch systems ( obviously not like the guzzi dry clutch set up and as such cannot be made fully suitable for the extreme environment of the flat tappet system as they need higher levels detergent to cope with clutch wear debris along with the inability to have the optimum anti friction additive levels (ie ZDDP) needed for correct operation of flat tappets.
high levels of anti friction and zinc additives would affect wet clutch ability to operate.
The Oil scientist stated that a 10/60 oil with extreme performance would suit the engine but then again the oil should have maximum optimised anti friction agents that cushion the flat tappet faces. The nano + series do just that and is designed for classic and modern high performance cars like porsche etc with flat tappet design.
As it happens Millers do one Millers 10/60 nano + (note the + which is for dry clutch they do one without the + for wet clutches without the full benefits of this oil for flat tappet set up.) ( so maybe a bit of selling here).Millers claim there oil far exceeds the API (SM) and acea specifications needed for the 8V Guzzi engine type .
So off I went and did a little bit of research on internet and in the states there is quite a bit of research about flat tappet failure on performance cars, and the correct grading of oil and high ZDDP and other anti friction additives has largely solved the issue.
So from now on Im going to run the oil from millers its similar price to the motorcycle oil from putoline or silkelene. But it does come in 5 Ltrs instead of 4 litre so seems a lot more but is much the same £15 litre average.
I do rattle on but its all information for anyone who has not fell asleep yet.
Cyclobutch I raised this issue with Millers - they say that this oil is safe to use with cats as it has been designed with those parameters included being a brand new oil released.
80°C is nowhere near hot enough.
Fully Synthetic Oils are designed to run at around 110-120°C, and that’s where they ‘work’ best.
The 1200 CARC Engines are very over-cooled, no idea why they went to a Larger Cooler on the ‘Big Tank’ Models either.
There are two Oil Pumps (in a common Housing).
One feeds the Main and Big-End Bearings, the other feeds Oil through the Cooler, and into the Heads, basically flooding the areas around the Exhaust Valves for extra Cooling.
All ‘Air-Cooled’ Four Strokes are actually as much cooled by the Oil as by the Air.
To have an Air/Oil Cooled Engine without a Thermostat is crazy, particularly if it’s going to be used in cooler/wetter Climates like the UK, and elsewhere.
If you don’t fit a Thermostat, then at the very least fit an Oil Temp Gauge, and cover the Cooler depending on the weather to keep the Oil Temps up around 110-120°C.
As for Oil analysis, make sure they’re looking for traces of the DLC (Diamond-Like Coating) that the Flat Tappet faces are treated with.
Once you see metal particles, it may be too late . . .
I agree 80 is cool on the spectrum and above 100 is ideal, my runs are always quite long and the engine gets HOT almost every time but always exceeds 80 degrees before I start putting on the power.
I agree that a thermostat would be good however you would definitely need a bypass so that the low pressure oiling would still function and there isn’t much space to stick it in.
Well with only 15000 miles on the clock the flat tappets went into melt down, I had an oil analysis test come back and one of the metal counts (iron) had shown an increase in PPM particulates in the oil readings - a small amount but an increase all the same - so I pulled the cam box (easy job and stripped out the flat tappets and hey ho the black coating was away bearing the shine but so far hardly marked or worn metal underneath, the cam faces were starting to blue up a bit though. They are being replaced under the guzzi rollerisation free parts supplied set up - by jim allen motorcycles - who i have to say have been absolutely brilliant to deal with. pics attached of flat tappet and cam.
I made and fitted a Thermostat Unit to the Cooling Circuit on my Stelvio back in April 2017, around 10,000 miles on it since then (I know, long story, but I need/want to do much more).
Wax-Stat used starts to open at 93°C.
Warms up quicker, and settles at around 110°C most of the time.
Still runs a little Cool in the Rain, despite adding a Shield to the Unit (sits right behind Front Wheel), and insulating the Hoses.
The Thermostat Unit does the bypassing Brian.
While it’s ‘closed’ (Oil Temps below 93°C), the Cooling Circuit Oil from the Pump (Low Pressure-High Flow) flows directly to the Heads, without passing through the Cooler. Once 93°C is reached, the Wax-Stat starts to extend (against a small compression Spring), closing off the Bypass Circuit, and allowing the Oil Flow to go through the Cooler.
When the Oil temp drops again, the Wax-Stat contracts (helped by the spring), to start to close off the flow through the Cooler.
The system continually modulates the flow to keep the Temps fairly constant in various conditions (Speed, Air Temp, Engine Load etc).
Spring not shown, but it would be underneath the Wax-Stat (Blue), pushing upwards.
As above Brian.
Each Wax-Stat has a set Temp where it starts to extend, there were three or four to choose from as I recall, I went with the highest, at 93°C.
It’s the same unit as used in many Water Cooling Thermostats.
You can see the Base of the Wax-Stat sticking out on the left, Spring sits over that, the Plunger Rod can be seen at the other end.
The Rod goes into a blind hole in an insert in the removable Cap Piece, so as it extends, it pushes the Valve Body down against the Spring.
The Insert is removable, so I can replace it for one with a deeper or shallower hole, to fine-tune the overall movement of the Valve Body if required.
