Don’t just swap the relay. You must run a new wire from the battery +ve terminal, preferably via a fuse to the new relay - terminal 30 is what is mentioned above. I am sure Keith will give you a hand if necessary for the price of a burger. Without the new wire you will be back where you started.
before you start swapping or modding why not run a wire from the battery + and carefully touch it on the small spade terminal on the rear of the starter and see if it engages and turns the engine over
if nothing happens the starter / solenoid need a overhaul
if it turns over then the bike’s wiring / relays need an overhaul
my old t5 had probs with the started motor but never saw any probs with the wiring bar cleaning the live and earths between battery and start / frame
however my t5 regularly refused to start as the spade terminals would slide off the back of the ignition barrel … now that my be worth a look esp if you have been behind the dash recently
guzzi-v352014-01-18 07:41:25
Read the thread about testing a starter motor in the FAQ section.
What they said, and Ian earlier, if relay mod still fails try a wire between batt pos and solenoid terminal, make sure motor definitely doesn’t work before tearing it to bits. Also check starter button and earthing etc. HTH
OK I’m GORMLESS, I know that already, so don’t have a pop…
I went out there today to fit me wire, as per Guzzibear’s instructions, but being a bit hard of thinking, I couldn’t work out what them instructions meant…?
One minute they say unplug the wire to number 30 on the relay, and put a direct battery feed to it, then they say keep the 87 wire in the loop…?
Now this, most likely, is easy for ‘Normal’ people, but for me… So for the minute, I’ve simply plugged in a brand new relay, and the bike’s firing up like a good un. So I’ll wait till it plays up again, and have another go with the wire thingy…
In the meantime, all the spades on the relay are connected with a single plug type thing, with all the various wires going into it. So, when it comes to it, do I cut the 30 wire, and then connect the battery direct feed wire to it, or what…?
Sorry to me a simpleton, but I’ve been working on 70yr old British bikes, and they don’t have anything like this stuff on em…
Not you who is gormless Shaun, it’s me. The directions are incorrect. Read them again, I’ve amended them.The brown wire to pin 87 is also looped to pin 85. Remove the connection to 87, ensuring the connection to 85 is still there. Then run new wire to pin 87 from the battery positive preferably via an inline 15A fuse. You can remove the spade sockets from the plastic moulding by pushing a small jeweller’s screwdriver down the back of the spade and lifting the tang which holds it in place in the plastic. once removed it is easy to just tape it up and put a new spade into the hole in the block with the new wire attached. Normal wiring diagram here.http://forum.guzzitech.com/phocadownload/wiring/1983_T5_series_2.gif
Brian UK2014-01-27 18:43:55
Thanks Brian, now I’m in a right Mucking Fuddle…
Perhaps it’s due to starting work at Midnight…? I’ll have to leave this for a bit, and once me brain is rested, give it another looksee. I’m SURE it’s easy, just me being bloody Gormless. You’re not gormless lad, I am, I said it first so there…
This may or may not help: So basically 30 is connected to 87 when activated, i.e. 12V across 85 and 86. So for ‘relay mod’ ignition 12V to 85 (say), start button to 86; 30 to starter solenoid blade terminal (red wire?), 87 to battery via it’s own wire and 16A fuse (original colour brown [?]) You could have had dirty terminals or bad switch contacts in yours hence it not working. HTH
Mike, thanks for that I’m clearing up in me mind, BUT, what’s clogging it, is that ‘Loop’ thang…?
So in as plain as English as possible, what do I do, sorry I KNOW it’s like pulling teeth telling me this stuff, but electrics do me Ed in, one mistook and I’ll let all the smoke out of the wires, then, I’m buggered…
So imagine you’re telling a 4yr old, I get me a bit of wire with a fuse attached, and place it on terminal…
BLIMEY…! How embarrassing is this…? And to think I rebuild a BSA A10 engine t’other year, makes ya fink don’t it…
If this is a T5, I’m not absolutely sure the wiring is exactly the same as I’m used to (early Tonti’s, LM 1 - 2 / T3 / Spada 1 - 2 etc.) But on mine I disconnected the brown wire for the starter relay (on pin 30 or 87) from fuse 2 in the fusebox (I think) and moved it to fuse 5. In my case fuses 5 & 6 are both powered off the live battery positive (e.g. if you’ve got hazard flashers, Spada, LM2 etc., and fuse 6 does the time clock) This way the current only has to go from batt+ through to fuse 5 and thence the brown wire to relay (thence relay to starter solenoid [red wire]), without going through all the loom connectors and ignition switch as ‘normal’. This route raises lots of possibilities for bad contacts that can cause ‘click no start’. That really is the quickest and simplest way as all the doings are there, just move a connector, BUT you need fuses 5 / 6 to be wired up to battery already. Or, put a wire in to do that ~ on models not having hazards and / or clock fuse 5 & 6 are not used and so not connected to anything on either side. EDIT #2: bear in mind I’m using old Tonti models as a reference, T5 may be different (can someone else verify) HTH (?)
Mike H2014-01-29 20:28:16
Shaun mate a Loop of which you speak is a short bit of wire with spade terminal on each end and "loops from 85 to 87 joining them mate. So what you do is take off the brown wire going TO 87 replace it with a wire from the battery, the brown wire has power ON when you turn the key make sure you isolate that wire (PS I used it to power my heated grips so when ign is off so are the grips)
The power TO the relay now comes direct from the battery and you add the "loop to the 85 , put back and fire 'er up
By the way click no start is 99.9% ALWAYS that start relay SO if you do NOT want to play with elektrikery simple carry a spare relay if it does not fire up replace said relay…job done…
That brown wire, if you leave it looped on the relay from 30 to 86, then you would be able to turn the engine over on the button whether the ignition was turned on or off.
OK, the wiring diagram shown earlier is incorrect, the pins have the wrong numbers. This is what it should look like.The brown wire you have to change goes to pin 30 and 85 (or perhaps 86). This is called a loop through. You need to keep the connection from the loom to pin 85/6, but remove the brown wire from 30. Then run a new wire from the battery positive via an inline fuse to pin 30. I’ll change the diagram in the FAQ thread as soon as I can. It was taken from Carl Allison’s diagrams, but they are also wrong. You will see their correct standard wiring on this diagram.
More or less all models of Guzzi may suffer from this at some time in their lives. You push the starter button only to hear a small click, and nothing else happens. It is mainly due to the strange wiring used, where the high current which is required to operate the starter solenoid has to pass through the ignition switch contacts, which are rarely designed for this. The cure is to do a small modification to the wiring of the start relay, found amongst the relays on all models. In essence you need to remove the wire connected to pin 30 on the relay, ensuring that the loop to pin 85 remains intact and still connected to the loom. Then run a new wire from battery positive via an inline fuse of at least 15A back to pin 30 on the start relay. Original wiring. Modified wiring
OK I forgot all about the ‘loop’, ('cause I’ve rewired my entire loom without one, as don’t need it ) So yes one end of the loop taken off and taped up
You don’t really mean that Mike do you?If you move the brown wire from fuse 2 to fuse 5 which is live all the time, and then remove the loop you take the power away from either the relay contact or coil, depending on which part of the loop you remove.The brown wire to pin 85 on the relay must be fed via the ignition switch, so must remain on the original harness. The connection to pin 30 should come from a direct feed, possibly by using fuse 5.
OK again I forgot mine is different, live side of coil is connected to ignition coils’ supply + so starter only works when kill switch is on. Sorry. In which case the ‘loop’ of brown wire was already off at one end. So yes brown wire can just be moved from F2 to F5. Nowadays loop is entirely missing as is omitted from the new wiring.