Hello all, new here, I have a '93 Cali 3 1000cc carburated model.
Can anyone tell me if there is meant to be oil in the swinging arm to lube the driveshaft?
I’ve had a leak, which drenched the back wheel, and also seems to be coming from the gaitor joining the swing arm to the gearbox.
I don’t know if the oil is meant to be in the swing arm tube, whether it has come from the gear box, or is oil from the diff. Any help much appreciated, cheers, Newt.
Nope it runs dry.
Bit a it of oil will not hurt
Hi Newt
If the oil has come from the boot it could be from the nearest seal (gearbox) or the diff seal and the oil moved along by the shaft (less likely).
You could measure how much oil is in the relevant section to see where the loss is from but this assumes that it was at the correct level.
Can it definitely be traced to the gaiter?
First thoughts
Best of luck
Steve
That oil will be either from the bevel or the gearbox , sorry I do tend to soak the UJ in a bath of oil any time I take it out, keeps it nicely lubed.
The gearbox oil should be as per the bevel box a Hypoy 80-90 with in the bevel box a molyslip additive YOU can also use the redline oil contact Opie oils for that one
Be careful, oil has a habit of travelling about a lot so easily looks like it’s coming from somewhere that it completely isn’t. In the absence of more exact details the first thing I think of is say the engine crankcase breather hoses, if one has split or come off or is just loose, will basically smother outside top of gearbox and blow back. Should not be any oil inside gaiter, UNLESS gearbox output shaft seal lis eaking, BUT even then the gaiter will hold it all in anyway if it’s oil tight. Which it usually is. (Oiltight.) There can be a trace of oil in the swingarm, but only because there’s a vent hole through the pinion housing, so it will be from F/D box.
Many thanks for the replies chaps, Didn’t expect such a quick response!
To elaborate a bit more…
I bought some Hagon shocks for the rear, but in a senior moment accidentally bought the wrong ones (30mm shorter).
Consequently occasionally the rear wheel was hitting the rear mudguard. ie, the swing arm was moving itno a zone it had never been before.
I’m sure this can not have done the shaft any good.
I now have the right shocks.
I couldn’t drain the diff as the drain bolt has sheared. Fortunately the stud is loose i the housing (I’ve stripped the crown wheel out)so I don’t expect removing it to be a problem.
In the swinging arm was probably 100ml of thick oil.
As the diff/rear wheel was sitting higher in the frame (due to wrong shocks) I’m wondering if the oil has worked it’s way through the bearing-turny-thingumy-jiggy-type thing, (pinion & bearing?) which though has lots of bearings doesn’t appear to have any seals or to be able to stop oil leaking past it. As far as I can see.
It did seem to be leaking from the front gaitor, so that will have to be inspected. I can’t dismiss the possibility of a breather leak running over the gaitor and down, but it wouldn’t explain the oil in the swing arm tube.
How difficult is it to remove the swing arm? It would be good to blast and paint it as I’m this far into it, and presumably it would give a clear view then of the gearbox seal?
True, there are no seals on the input shaft of the bevel drive, so yes, in your case the oil from the bevel drive may have migrated down the swingarm. Were you able to tell if there was enough oil in the bevel drive or did it seems short on oil?The front gaitor may have a small crack in it, normally it’s not a problem as it is only there to keep dirt out.
Hi Brian, There seemed to be plenty of oil in the bevel drive, when the problem started (320 mile round trip) I stopped and removed the ‘fill level’ plug and there was oil there. It all looks ok and the bearings are smooth. I guess I need to closely inspect the seal at the gearbox end and look for a split in the rubber gaitor.
Anyone know how easy it is to remove the swing arm?
Fairly straightforward.Have you checked the oil level in the gearbox? Have you got a workshop manual for the bike? If not look at the manuals thread in this section and you will find where you can get one from.
I have heard of people putting oil in the drive shaft housing on the pretext that it keeps the uj lubed but this is nonsense as the uj has seals on the bearings so oil would not get to the bearing needle rollers plus any oil would just get flung out by centrifugal force as the uj spun in operation
Mick
Thanks. I havent’t checked the oil in the gearbox, I’ve yet to get to grips with the filler. It’s crudded up And I can’t determine if it’s allen key or starbit. I only had a cursory look but it isn’t obvious to me yet where to drain the gearbox oil from. Maybe it’s a pump out?
I think for today I’ll be cleaning and grit blasting the FD/Diff/bevel drive housing and sorting the snapped drain bolt, then maybe sort the gearbox oil filler plug, then ease back the gaitor for a looksee, I gather from posts above there will be a UJ there? I may if there’s time remove the swing arm for a grit blast and re-paint while I’m there.
Fingers crossed the G Box oil seal is good… I dunno what seals may have been stressed by the swing arm rising higher than it ever should…
Oh, and yes, I have all the manuals in various languages that are available on the web, haven’t splashed any cash yet though. Is there a Haynes for it? Will have to look…
WOAH unless you want to be really stripping the whole diff DO NOT grit blast it All it really needs is a gunk and stiff brush mate.
You could end up making a simple job into a whole rear bevel box rebuild and than some.
You can clean everything off the swing arm with a wire brush on a drill, far safer than grit, IF you grit it you will then need to replace the bearing and really really clean it.
The fillers are either an Allen Key OR on older ones a BIG brass nut, 22mm spanner for that one the drain is I believe 19mm (May be 17mm tho’ gerrin old y see) The filler SHOYLD have a small rubber bung in the top to stop crud gettint in and ruining the Allen key socket 'ole
Gearbox level plug on right kinda behind the footbrake
Gearbox drain plug is underneath look and you will see the obvious drain plug
Haynes manuals often 2nd hand BUT Haynes DO give Club Members a discount
Swing arm is fairly easy
Undo silencers
Rear wheel out
Undo bottom of righthand suspension
Bevel box off
Left hand suspsnsion lower off the arm support the swingarm
Take off the large outer lock nuts on each side
On my older V1000 I take off the rear footrest plates as the 17mm nuts and bolts do protrude making getting the swingarm out more difficult
You can also get a bit more room taking the silencers off
MEASURE the distance the fine threaded swingarm bolt protrudes IT MATTERS
Undo each side carefully I count and note the number of turns
Undo the rubber boot held on with 2 jubilee clips
The swing arm will then jiggle free,
I can’t remember if you need to take the centre stand out!!
No but you’re right about the lower rear frame bolts.
Blimey sounds like it’s a bit of a state. I’m guessing this is the flat top Allen key style filler plug, needs 10mm plain ordinary Allen key. Otherwise (by factory default) it’s a whopping big hexagon headed thing, needs the 22/24mm toolkit spanner. Same size as the sump drain plug. Both g/box and F/D have the same 17mm AF drain and level plugs. These should be sealed with the correct aluminium washers. The filler plugs don’t usually need any though. G/box drain plug is up above where exhaust cross pipe goes, maybe why you can’t find it easily. (It’s hiding.) HTH
I forgot of course, it’s chromed steel so yes not unusual for it to go rusty especially the hex hole. You can get stainless ones from shawstainless on eBay.
Wow! Thanks for the replies! I wish I had checked back here before progressing.
I came back to ask specifically how easy it was to change the oil seal in the gearbox, if it’s a pick it out job or gearbox off job?
Where I’m at now, is I have the swing arm off, struggled then took the footrest hangers off, I had to remove the exhaust link box to get to the gearbox oil drain plug, I’ve drained the oil and there was only 150ml in there.
From the manuals I have, I gather there should be 750ml. There was some small deposits on the magnetic plug, as to be expected, and the oil looked fairly clean and didn’t smell burnt, so I’m not unduly worried about the gearbox, time will tell if it’s survived being run low.
I removed the filler plug, loosley replaced the level bung and the drain bung, stuck the airline in and gave a slight pressure up in the gearbox. (Yes, risking blowing oil seals I know) however the slight ‘pressure up’ didn’t force any air or oil past the gearbox output shaft seal, so I’m in a bit of a quandary. Do I presume the low gearbox oil has been due to the seal leaking? It’s been a fair bit of work stripping down to this far, if I re assemble without replacing the seal…
So I guess it’s how easy it is to replace the seal. Has anyone experience of this please?
Thanks again for the help.
Oh, another thing, I just wound out the fine threaded swing arm support bushes without counting turns etc, I can’t as yet see the importance of it (I’m sure I will)can someone explain why it’s necessary and what I will have to do to set it up? Thanks.
When reassembling the swing arm, wind in the inner stubs equally. You are tightening up a taper roller bearing so just tight them just enough to stop the swing arm moving side to side, no more. Make sure the threads on the inner stubs protrude the same amount as this centralises the swing arm (and hence the rear wheel) in the frame. The shiny outer nuts just lock everything up so it can’t come undone again. Use a 10m allen key to hold the inner stubs still whist tightening the outer nuts.
Not sure about changing the seal with the box in situ, I did mine when the gearbox was apart.Don-Spada2013-10-24 16:19:57
^ What he said, except on mine the centre stub screws (the manuals call them pivot pins) have screwdriver slots. Therefore not easy to do up too tight. Although I did use a T-bar last time. Either measure how far the ends protrude with a ruler, or count the number of threads. In my books g/box is 750cc and F/D case 250 cc (a single 1 litre bottle does just right). Putting 2 + 2 together ‘rear tyre drenched’ and 150 cc left in g/box suggests it is a g/box leak, BUT did the oil on tyre etc. have a distinctive smell, as g/box oil does, quite different to engine oil. Also is there oil inside gaiter and on the UJ assembly? If no, it’s not the o/p seal then. The F/D oil cannot travel up the shaft tunnel as far as the UJ because of the UJ support bearing, which is a sealed type bearing so oil can’t get past. However 93 Cali may be different to Tontis I actually know about
Mike H2013-10-24 17:01:43