Hhhhhelp me with my Ssssttttuttering!

Hello folks

Very much a Guzzi newbie here looking for help with low speed hesitation and snatchy throttle on my Norge 1200T 2v

I have read so much forum advise and checked all the obvious stuff (air filter, plugs, cable free play, throttle bodies) etc but all to no avail and whilst I love the bike the problem makes her almost unrideable.

I have read many post suggested an ecu remap would help but whilst I am happy twirling spanner’s I have absolutely no clue what to do with a laptop other than use it as a tray to eat my dinner off whilst watching the tele.

Is there any knowledgeable soul out there that in exchange for beer vouchers would be able to read and reprogrammed my ecu in the hope that the problem can be overcome and I can start enjoy this lovely bike fully?

If you have a Laptop, you only need buy the Lonelec Cables to connect it to the Bike.
Everything else is free to Download, GuzziDiag, and the Read & Write programs for loading/downloading the Maps.
Maps can be had for free too, PM me for details/contacts.

It’s really nothing to be scared of doing, it can’t really be ‘messed up’.
95% of it is just following on-screen prompts, such as ‘Turn on Ignition’, ‘Turn off Ignition’, or selecting the Map from the file you stored it in.
Plenty of good guides available too.
This is probably the only one you need though, it has links for the downloads you need (5AM ECU on the 1200 8V CARC Bikes), and a link to the Cables sold by Lonelec.
Don’t be tempted by very slightly cheaper ebay cables, they usually don’t work, and Lonelec’s ones are guaranteed to, excellent after-sales back-up too.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_quota_guzzidiag_howto_-_a_tutorial_for_beginners.html

I’ve done a few remaps for people now, so if you really don’t fancy doing it, and do fancy a ride down to South Bucks sometime, I’d be happy to do yours too.

Hi Doc

Thanks for the info and perhaps a ride down to you one weekend would be on the cards, I’d rather Leave it tosomeone who knows what they’re doing.

I’m also reading that balancing the throttle bodies is important but this requires the TPS resetting afterwards but this requires some cables and a laptop. Is this something that could be done at the same time?

Well having just read a very detailed write up on throttle body adjustment and TPS reset on Guzzitech forum I’ve just bought the leads from Lonelec and am going to have a play with Guzzidiag.
Before I download the relevant software can someone please tell me which ecu I have? 5AM or 15M and how could I have found this information myself?
2008 Norge 1200 T 2v by the way!

All the ‘CARC’ Models use the 5AM ECU, as do many Ducatis, Aprilia Mana 850, & Moto Morini 1200s, useful if you ever need a used spare.
I have one from a Ducati in my spares pile.
https://docplayer.net/32136638-Motorcycle-brand-model-ecu-ecm-master-list.html
Full designation is 5AM HW610
DucECU.jpg
TPS Reset, and all other ‘Service’ functions are done with GuzziDiag, through the Lonelec Cables and Laptop.
I’ll check availability of maps for the 4V Engines, I’ve only done 8V versions so far.

I asked my usual Map guy (Xlratr ~ John Brooks), but his Maps only cover the 8V Engines.
He suggested ‘Beetle’, another well respected Map developer.

He has a map for the 4V Norge.
https://www.griso.org/#

Thanks for the info Doc and for your help so far.
The Lonelec leads have arrived so I am just waiting on the manometer and I’ll be all set. One piece of info not included in the info I found on balancing the throttle bodies was what value to reset the TPS too once I’ve done the rebalance although I seem to recall reading somewhere 4.5 to 4.9. Can you confirm this is correct please?

You can’t choose what the TPS is set to, you just do a Reset in GuzziDiag.
This tells the ECU to use the current position of the R/H Throttle Butterfly as the Datum (Factory set at 4.7).

This is becasue the Factory set Stop Screw (the SACRED Screw, NEVER EVER touch it!) is on the left Throttle Body, but the TPS is on the right.
When you do a TB Balance, you move the position of the R/H Throttle Plate (Butterfly), in relation to the ‘Fixed’ L/H one.
If you don’t reset it after doing a TB Balance, then the ECU will be using an incorrect Datum/Baseline for the Fuelling, so it’d be off across the whole rev-range.
SacredScrew1.jpg

Well, I finally got round to balancing the throttle bodies and resetting the TPS and from a fairly short runout I can report back a vast improvement in starting, tickover and slow speed response. No more surge/hesitation at small throttle openings while trickling along in traffic and starts much better from cold and settles to a nice steady tickover.

Many thanks to everyone for all your help.
:clap::clap::clap:

It’s a good feeling isn’t it, both the getting a noticeable improvement from work you’ve done, and realising the ‘Dark Magic’ isn’t so tricky to work with after all! :wink:

Hi All, I have a similar problem on my 2008 Norge GTL, I adjusted the balance between the RHS and LHS throttle bodies while the bike was hot and now I can get the bike to tick over or run.

Boisty, could you please post a link to the write up on the throttle body Adjustment that you found on GuzziTech, and did you end up changing the mapping on your bike?

I’m guessing you meant can’t get it to idle or run?

What’s it doing exactly, will it not start at all?

Sorry, I meant that I cant get it to run or idle.

It will start occasionally but will not idle for long, 10 seconds at most. When it does idle, it is very slow and not smooth at all.

I am in the process of getting Guzzi Diag system, cable and Vacuum Gauges to set the TPS up as per the instruction from “This old tractor”.

Was it OK before you did the Balancing?

What exactly did you do?
Think back to (and check over) everything you touched during the Job.

I presume you did put the Intake blanking Screws back in? :wink:
I’ll also presume you didn’t touch the ‘sacred Screw’?

I have not touched the sacred screw.

It ran fine before I fiddled with the bike.

I have adjusted everything back to where it was, the only thing I adjusted was the balancing screw.

I turned the blanking screws right in

I have setup the TPS as per the instructions in the document using the GuzziDiag.

What I did notice, while using the GuzziDiag, was that the advance ignition changed from 0deg to 20deg then back to 0deg again while trying to start the bike.

Does anyone know what the advanced ignition should be when the bike needs to start from cold?

balancing the throttle bodies can be broken down in to about 7 steps

The idle balance screws (the brass ones) - only one should be open [if needed] - never both

Any more than 1/2 turn on throttle balance screw (on a reasonably running engine) is wrong

Hi all, I am replying on Marks behalf as he is away on holiday (on the Norge!). I got involved when Mark was using the Guzzidiag. We assumed the TPS is set on the right hand throttle body with the connecting rod remove and the butterfly in its closed position. That is what we did. We then connected the connecting rod and tried to start the bike. Nothing! (engine turns over but does not fire). We then adjusted the connecting rod to just open the right side throttle body butterfly a slight amount. Again, nothing. We then shut both by pass screws and opened the right hand side one half a turn. The motor ran roughly for about 4 or five seconds then died. It would not respond to the throttle at all. We then took out the plugs and squirted petrol into each cylinder, and replaced the plugs. The motor started and ran a short while and then died. In desperation the bike was take to Wheels in Peterborough. After some diagnosis they determined the fuel pump had failed! Sure enough when it was removed it was found one of the rubber hoses had deteriorated and had closed up. Pipe was replaced, everything re-assembled, and the bike started and ran. The throttle bodies were reset and all now appears fine. What are the chances of the internal pipe blocking at the same time that Mark made the initial screw adjustment? Just for our peace of mind can anyone confirm that the TPS is set with the right hand side butterfly in the fully closed position?

Many thanks, Phil

Strange things happen
glad its fixed now

Hopefully the fuel filter got replaced at same time - it’s one of those things we forget to change regularly

(Again)

But congrats :smiley:

Hi Phil.
TPS isn’t ‘set’, it’s just ‘reset’ via Guzzidiag, at the end of the Balancing procedure.

As I posted earlier . . .

You can’t choose what the TPS is set to, you just do a Reset in GuzziDiag.
This tells the ECU to use the current position of the R/H Throttle Butterfly as the Datum (Factory set at 4.7).

This is becasue the Factory set Stop Screw (the SACRED Screw, NEVER EVER touch it!) is on the left Throttle Body, but the TPS is on the right.
When you do a TB Balance, you move the position of the R/H Throttle Plate (Butterfly), in relation to the ‘Fixed’ L/H one.
If you don’t reset it after doing a TB Balance, then the ECU will be using an incorrect Datum/Baseline for the Fuelling, so it’d be off across the whole rev-range.

Glad you got it sorted.
That internally failed Hose would have stumped anyone for a while.