How to use linked brake system on older Guzzi

Hi, bit of a noob question. I’m about to sit my big bike test and haven’t actually ridden my ‘81 Monza yet. Can someone explain how to use the bike’s linked brake system please? What’s the sequence in emergency stop, normal stop at junction and having to use brakes in a corner or trail braking. Thanks.

Actually, you use footbrake all the time, and ‘front only/hand” one just when you’re holding the bike at the traffic lights! At least, this is how I found myself using it after years spent on Guzzi, commuting to work and back. It will come on its own once you’ll notice how unbelievably efficient(not sharp - efficient!) is the linked system vs. front one. No chance to skid the wheel. Fantastic at emergency braking. No front end diving. Hard to explain why Guzzi gave up on that - I know some simple Chinese 125s use this system these days and single front disc is not an obstacle, if you wanted to defend Mandello’s move this way.

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The technically correct way to brake is to forget they are linked at all. You should use front and rear brakes at all times (unless slow manoeuvring when it can be beneficial to lightly apply the rear in isolation to offset the forces acting on the motorcycle thereby aiding stability), front marginally before rear to aid in loading suspension and increasing the tyre footprint. In the dry about 75% front (your primary brake) to 25% rear. This is lever pressure not lever travel. In the wet about 50/50. Brakes should always be applied progressively with no snatching, ease & squeeze. Use as many fingers on the lever as will fit comfortably - don’t use 2 if 4 will fit. The reason you should not selectively brake other than slow manoeuvring and also always use correct technique is to build good memory templates that you will use autonomously in the event of an emergency braking event. You may not have time to do otherwise. Learn about safe stopping distances and build them into your riding plans. If your bike has ABS learn what to expect if/when it activates and know that, most likely, linked systems only apply a proportion of braking activity to the linked wheel so you will not be utilising your full braking potential unless both levers are used properly. Hope this helps

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What Adam says is the way to go.

Sorry Gizmo, you have given a very good text book answer which is to be commended.

The issue is that the old guzzis have a proportional valve that splits the pressure between one front disk and the rear. At moderate pressure on the pedal of up to 21 bar the split is 50/50. Over this pressure it goes to something like 70/30 (Front/Rear).

So you see the back brake pedal is not linear, hence treating it like its not linked doesn’t work quite the same way as if it isn’t linked.

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Thanks guys. Much appreciated. :+1:

TBH, as small block enthusiast with no idea whatsoever about Tontis, I understand proportional valve was used just to big blocks, small ones use just a simple splitter. What makes no difference to me about praising the idea of linked brakes!

Most Guzzi’s just use a simle splitter, it was just the Spada and some California & LeMans models that had the proportioning valve.

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Sorry for the delay in response, I’ve been clearing a property. I have my very first Guzzi a brand new V7 Sport. As such, I have no knowledge about older Guzzis, so it is really interesting to hear about the way the brakes work on the older models. I’m glad it was felt my original answer was text book even though it didn’t account for the nuances around older Guzzi braking systems.

An issue may possibly arise should the OP be intending to undergo their motorcycle test in the UK as I suspect the examiner will be looking for text-book braking technique. Good luck to him or her trying to explain that the reason only the rear brake is being used is due to the idiosyncrasies associated with inner workings of the aged linked brake system. I’m not confident that will form any part of the appendices to the DVSA Examiner manual. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

My goodness! Good luck to any aspiring full licence candidate these days! I feel for you all!

When I took my test in the dim and distant past I was instructed to keep circumnavigating the same two blocks while the little man with the clipboard walked around stopping me occasionally with some instruction. Never got out of 3rd gear at most! Emergency stop from about 25mph if lucky when he jumped out in front of me was hardly any challenge as I could see him setting up for it before even close.:rofl:

When I went to the USA 20yrs later I had to take the test with the formidable state troopers. This was on a ZZR1200. I was pretty damn nervous. First appointment at opening. This big ole boy asked me if that was me rolled in just ahead of him? I confirmed that and he told me I had passed!!! LOL

I seem to recall back in the day there were another couple of bikes briefly used a linked system?

Honda maybe? CX500 possibly? Can’t remember now.

Anyway, best of luck with the test! Wonder if it is worth pointing out to the tester beforehand the existence of your oddball system? However, assuming your brake light is functional not sure he might even notice the difference from behind?

Honda Blackbird has linked brakes but linked both ways, overly complex but it does work extremely well.

Pull the front lever and four of the pistons in each front caliper are used, a small secondary master cylinder activated by the torque on one of the front calipers feeds pressure to two pistons (of the six) in the rear. Push the rear brake, that allows pressure to the other four pistons of the rear caliper, there is a delay valve that then allows brake pressure to the other two pistons in each of the front calipers.

Russell

Whoa! That is a new one to me but, as you say, of itself a complicated solution to a question few people asked? God help anyone trying to bleed that convoluted setup. SIX pistons in the rear? Expensive and utterly pointless exercise to me at least.

I can ‘get’ what is being attempted, maintaining balance and linearity between front and rear? I’d have to suggest the development of more and more sensitive ABS systems kind of relegated that sort of approach to the back burner.

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Bleeding the brakes was difficult/impossible without a suction bleed device, a set of 7 braided hoses is nearly £400 - I believe the seal kit for the secondary master cylinder is also no longer available

As you say decent ABS has probably replaced this kind of approach completely.

I sold my Blackbird a few years ago - it just went too fast too easily - an awesome but ridiculous bike.

Russell

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Ha! Don’t you miss it still?? :smiley: I had a ZZR1200 for a few yrs the other ‘last of the carburetted missiles’. Sold it to a guy who became my sturdy riding buddy for many years more. Damn thing never missed a beat and well capable of keeping up with my ZX14. Actually more than that if I’m honest as he was a better rider than me I’d say.

Thanks for all the input guys. I passed the test and got my license today. Lessons and test were completed on a modern bike with separate front and rear brakes with ABS so I’ll enjoy getting a feel for the Monza and be sure to keep in mind it’s a 44 year old machine.

Unless I’ve interpreted all your advice wrongly, I should initially use the textbook way I’ve been taught - as Gizmo suggested - with using front brake lever marginally before the use of the rear/front pedal brake. After I get used to that way I can see/feel how the use of the rear/front linked pedal works. Thanks again.

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Really well done for getting your test passed. I’ve experience of the UK training and testing regime at both pre and post test level. Passing the modern test is much more searching of candidate’s core skill levels than the test many of us (no doubt) on this forum undertook. No mean feat. At the risk of preaching, you should really explore some post-test training options now as there are some important (in my view) elements potentially overlooked in the learner syllabus. Well done again! :partying_face:

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Thanks for the encouragement. I hadn’t ridden a motorcycle 4 months ago so it was a steep learning curve…..and I’m well into middle age which possibly made things more difficult. Perhaps the biggest obstacle was the almost freezing temperatures and wet windy weather because at times I just felt my riding was deteriorating. Heated gloves cured a lot.

I’ll be sure to get back to my instructor for further training….in the spring time.:joy:

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Congrats on passing!

But! Linked Guzzi brakes are not “text book” brakes. Accept that fact and listen to people who know (o;

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Many congrats on achieving what you have in such a short time! Not sure how you managed to get through the stages so fast but I am no expert on the current convoluted road to full licence.

On “further training” do what you find valuable or reassuring. Looking back over 55 years I never had instruction in any formal sense in my life. My oft repeated advice to ‘new’ riders has always been “just get out and ride by yourself.” Build your own self awareness and experience at your own pace. i.e. NOT at someone else’s.

I have known a few newer riders tempted into group riding with questionable company and getting sucked along by others beyond their comfort level. Result, disaster. (Please do not find me condescending btw? I don’t know you and sure you know your own mind. ) This is just my generic 2 cents.

I believe everyone has to develop their own style if you like and no two are the same. Each bike is a new learning curve and every curve is a new learning experience? You can’t achieve that while trying to watch what others are doing nor accepting someone else’s dictum on ‘the right way’ to do anything. This world is chock full of advice, much of it misguided, possibly including mine!

So Spring will come eventually and get out there and build some miles and confidence at your own pace and not worrying about critique and correction. You will find out your own weak points to practice on without an audience. Theory you can study anywhere online. Actually doing it and finding what suits you or are capable of is the key.

Enjoy the journey, it has given me and everyone else here immense joy and eventual humility in equal measure. Nirvana… or as close to it as I’ll ever achieve! :rofl:

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When you do feel ready, provided you are happy with your current instructor (and they are suitably qualified), you should be able to discuss your options for development with them. A point to remember is that a DAS instructor is still a learner trainer. This is not intended to belittle such qualifications. Learner trainers have a defined skillset that not everyone can turn their hand to. It can be a challenging job. However, they may not be qualified or accredited post-test trainers. Additional options for you to consider: BikeSafe (police-led motorcyclist casualty reduction scheme), ERS (DVSA backed training and assessment scheme), IAM Roadsmart or RoSPA (RoADAR). Always remember, you don’t know what you don’t know so, recognise that you are a vulnerable road user whilst on two wheels, strive for knowledge and practice correct technique until it becomes embedded in your riding, oh and, enjoy every minute whilst you’re out on your bike. :blush:

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Sorry to be slightly at variance with all of you.

I had this tested when a numpty brake tested a procession of which I was third in line. I didn’t brake hard enough with the footbrake and ended up with the front tyre just kissing the (Peugeot rubber) rear bumper with my front tyre. Very destabilising and distressing.

On analysis I was braking conventionally with mainly front. Doh! Only one disc. What I should have done was brake mostly on the pedal with the bar lever as top up.

Once sussed we (my son on his bikes and me on the Cali) got into the habit of practicing regularly both wet and dry. You soon get the feel of it

Biggest problem is if you jump off a conventional braked bike onto the Guzzi, like I did.