Mandello discs and suspension

Technical V 100
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Hi, my Mandello is currently in a dealers having various problems looked at, as it is coming up on 2 years old (8500 miles).

The semi active suspension seems to my very inexpert senses to be very firm whatever settings I use. I have set up Tour mode with soft settings and Road mode with firm options, but it seems just as hard over bumps and ripples whichever I use - just as firm a ride as my classic mini, which does not have expensive semi-active suspension.

No news on that yet, but I’d also noticed a bit of juddering of the front brakes with gentle braking. Apparently the discs are warped, and apparently this is classed as general wear and tear so not covered under warranty.

2 years and 8500 miles does not seem like a very good lifetime for brake discs to me, I don’t ride particularly aggressively to overheat them.

Anyone else recognise these problems?

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Absolutely. I wrote an article in May/June Gambalunga about these very issues.

Discs. Mine did the same. Floating discs shouldn’t warp, so I don’t know the whole story. I DTI’d my discs and found them to measure up ok, but they still gave that big fluctuation in braking. I tried cleaning the bobbins with the flange nuts and brake cleaner trick, but didn’t improve it. My dealer put it all through as a warranty claim. New discs and pads and that cured it. That was about 8 months and 2,000 miles ago now.

Suspension. The problem appears to be way too little preload. Now, your problem is suspension that feels too firm, but hear me out. Without enough preload the shock is almost completely compressed. This has the dampers running with very little travel, and in the wrong place for them to work. That’s why changing modes has no tangible effect; I could tell no difference. The hardness you’re feeling is because the shock has a total of 65mm of travel ( IIRC ) but the bump stop is 25mm thick and takes up a significant amount of that. You’re riding around on the bump stop most of the time.

I found that if I put the preload on max, the semi-active suspension started working for me solo and I could feel the difference in the modes. I’m about 65kg so most riders will find they need more than that. Also, most of my riding is two-up so this wasn’t an adequate solution for me. Quite apart from the fact that now the machine was so tall I had to slide sideways off the seat when coming to a stop.

Solutions. For me, the answer was to shorten the stroke rod by 8mm, which had the effect of increasing the pre-load such that the new minimum was equivalent to the old maximum, and also lowered the back end by about an inch. Effective mechanical advantage of the suspension geometry is about 3:1. I also had the bump stop shaved quite significantly to restore some of the travel. It now rides brilliantly for me solo and I can make full use of the different suspension modes. I could do with a bit more pre-load when two-up fully-loaded, but it’s actually brilliant there, too.

My mate, who’s bigger than me, didn’t want it lower and does mostly solo work, took a different approach. The spring seat at the bottom which is part of the pre-load adjuster is threaded onto the shock body. His Ohlins specialist dismantled the shock and ran the collar three turns up ( I think that’s what he said ) which gave it an increase of about 8mm of pre-load. He also had the bump stop shaved to give more travel. Now it handles brilliantly for him, too. We’d both wondered if we needed higher spring rates, but stayed with the standard and it seems to work when set up properly like this.

What we did find was the damping oil was black, smelly and the shock was full of black stuff. This appears to be an Ohlins thing. I have a feeling that we may be in for 15000 mile shock servicing.

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Thanks you so much, Andy, for such a quick and detailed reply. Particularly about getting the discs replaced under warranty - I’ll let the dealer know. I’m also slightly hampered by the fact that the dealer I got it from is no longer a Guzzi dealer so can’t do warranty stuff. So it is now at a different dealers I’ve never been to before, and I do feel slightly uncomfortable asking them about stuff on a bike they didn’t sell.

Could I ask what age and mileage your bike was when the discs were done? And would you be happy telling me which dealer it was so that I can let the new place know?

I’m a complete Luddite when it comes to suspension, never having owned a bike with more that adjustable preload before! I thought that the Semi-Actice suspension handled all that for me!

Edit - just found your article - I had put it to one side to read when I could concentrate on it, and then it got other stuff piled on top. Shall read now!

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9,500 miles and 19 months when it went in to get fixed, so started seeing it about 3 months and 500 miles earlier .

MotoTechniks in Stowmarket were brilliant about it. I wasn’t expecting it, but they stopped everything when I dropped in while passing, put it on the brake rollers and just video’d the dial bouncing around the face to send to Piaggio. They also just looked at each other as I demonstrated the seriously notchy steering head bearings. Turned out to be ungreased in the factory so they did that under warranty, too. Yes, technically brakes and bearings are wear and tear items and so are excluded but they managed to persuade Piaggio to cover it.

I should also add, cos I was leading there, but forgot by the time I got there in my previous post, that once the pre-load is increased the suspension feels much softer, because now the spring is working, the damping is working and you’re no longer riding on the bump stop rubber.

And there’ll be a new letter in the next Gambalunga about sorting out the swinging arm play.

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As for Luddism and suspension, there are now so many knobs and dials that it’s tricky.

I think the new breed of suspension specialists are really good. You do need to at least try to work out what your problems are and what you think you need, because many of them come from the world of racing which is a bit different than our road needs. I think you need to take the ‘bike to one of these.

I know of Teut up in Preston, MCT near Stowmarket and FTR Suspension near Ely. FTR is my goto, though I took the Mandello to Teut, too.

It was £50 initial static set-up consultation, and FTR charged me £150 for the shock dismantle, stroke rod change etc and reassembly, gas recharge, but I did take the loose shock in for him to do.

Money very, very well spent.

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i have over 31k on my v85 and still on the original front disks, I agree 8500 is not good enough, even on my 125 front disk lasted more than twice that long

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Once again, thank you’, I’ll see if I can get dealer to approach them on the basis that they’ve covered a discs for a similar age/ mileage bike.

There’s someone in Leeds who is supposedly really good with suspension, I’ll try maxing the pre-load and take it from there.

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this explains why my v85tt feels like it crashes over bumps when I have the preload wound off and is so much better 2 up with preload. I’m going to add a bit more now for solo

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That would do it….

Most people think increasing pre-load makes the suspension stiffer. It doesn’t. What it does is change the neutral point, the amount of sag when the machine is sitting with the rider and/or load on it. ( a little more complicated with progressive springs, but not much ) Ideally, you want this to have a little bit of extension from this point for the rebound, but most of the compression travel available to let the spring absorb the bump energy. you then need this travel as the spring returns its energy and the damping can then get rid of it. If it can’t travel, the damping can’t dispose of the energy.

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great explanation, thanks :+1:

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Hello

Had issues with my V100 - 2022 model 8k miles - paint flaking off engine - out of warranty but Piaggio did offer a paint restoration kit FOC as a goodwill gesture. Sold the bike and bought a Ducati Multistrada!