Lovely day so thought I’d hop over to Teasdales from Scarborough on the Breva.
Now, don’t get me wrong I understand that my bike isn’t perfect (2003 Breva 750). Sometimes I wish the seat was higher and… Oh that’s it.
I now come to my point - I like Teasdales, great family run company and always friendly. So with that out of the way and with no malice intended or wishing to come across as another keyboard warrior,here goes. The quality of new bikes is just not good enough. Ok so why? Well it’s the same with the Hondas I’ve had/tested, Triumphs too. The paint is sooo thin, the plastics are cheap. The new 850 special looks, well, knocked out for a profit. The clock doesn’t suit it and the space in the middle of the bars, were mine has the eagle badge, is just a space… As if something fell out or they couldn’t be bothered. I continue - there was an almost new red mandello in the show room, tag stating a “stunning bike”, around 11k price tag and small mileage. I looked below at the collector box - rusted… I mean really? I tapped it, felt like tin.
It’s the same with the Honda company. My Wife’s new Hornet is a lovely bike but the pigeon poop welding on it just isn’t good enough. My 24 plate car is the same, scratches all over it due to lack of paint thickness and creaking dash board were the whole thing was thrown together. The prices go up, the quality seems to be deteriorating.
UPDATE. Some great debates since I posted a couple of days ago.
I’ve had time to digest all the comments and probably need to adjust my thinking somewhat. We benefit, as bikers, in the most part from the ability to change our bikes as often as we want, (I’m not well off but even I can do this with reasonably priced bikes). We get the chance to experience all that technology has to offer in biking, not available to car only drivers, (unless minted). We get top road performance for pennies in comparison. Therfore I’m getting the little Breva a full service, donning my aerostich suit and doing a trip across the channel. A bit of oil and love and my bike, (or any bike can stay in good condition). Nothing lasts forever does it? My point is… I’ll get out more and worry about bike quality or anything else a little less…
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You’re not wrong, but it ain’t just motorcycles.. everyday items, everything it seems, shoes.. washing machines.. cars.. houses..
The get it quick, get it cheap mentality is reflected in so many ways these days.
Is the lack of quality self inflicted.?
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The new bikes I see today will rarely be around in 5 let alone 10 years…
It’s actually very sad. We are killing the world with this quick turnaround mentality. Clothes, bikes, teapots, horses, millenials, Wives…no longevity.
Time for my medication.
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Like many on here I’ve had my share of bikes over the years. A Harley made of cheese, a triumph that after a few trips in the rain I couldn’t get any of the fairings off and a few other nightmare stories. However, I’m just getting to the end of a restoration of a 250N Honda Superdream. (Always wanted one as a kid). I have to say that most of the screws, nuts and bolts came off with little or no effort. The bike is 45 years old and had stood idle for 20 years under an awning. I’ve been able to clean a lot of them and reuse the ones that are hard to obtain. There’s something in what you said about quality. There really is.
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It doesn’t help that consumers won’t pay for quality. How many times did we all visit our grandparents and it’d be ‘this tablecloth cost me two months wages’ (insert any item and any number of months… there’d be something) which, as a child, breezed over your head as old person talk. But, that tablecloth, now sixty years old, was still in amazingly good nick.
These days people whine ‘I’m not paying that’ and just buy cheap tat. Or expensive tat with good marketing. Then throw it and buy another when it wears out.
People don’t look for value, just price.
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Hmmm…I think there is some generalisation afoot! Yes, ‘things’ are built down to a price point these days for all the reasons stated however there is a small but definate market for better quality goods.
Motorbikes (and indeed cars) are at the mercy of the software support lifecycle and we all know the failure point of the electronics can be the deciding factor in writing off an otherwise sound vehicle. We all suspect our bike and car engines, manufactured to close tolerances using modern metallurgy, will outlast these electronics however there is reason to be sceptical!
Manufacturers have ALWAYS built stuff down to a price point; for example the bracket holding the exhaust to the bike has to be made strong enough to last the warranty period under reasonable use. Before we could do clever things with 3D modelling and CAD, we would have had to make the bracket and test it to destruction to ensure it could just do the job for long enough. Multiply that by a hundred thousand other components and you have a very expensive testing process on your hands…so traditional mechanical design principals were applied instead - They were built stronger than necessary, using more material and adding more weight than strictly necessary. Most of us don’t mind this because it supports long-term ownership.
Fast forward to today’s world and every manufacturer is under pressure to meet ever-tightening emissions reg’s, competitive performance demands and improved efficiency in use. With the wonder tools of 3D modelling we can now stress-test designs virtually at a much lower cost so of course each component will be reduced to it’s weakest, lightest and cheapest state that will still ‘do the job’ under reasonable use for the warranty period.
We all know this has happened but guess what? It’s actually the consumers (us) who have largely created this situation by our demands for the cheapest, best performing and most efficient product. The other factor is of course government legislation that also drives the lightness/fuel efficiency trend. The fact we now have many ‘throwaway’ cheap Chinese built 125s on the market illustrates this.
I would, however, argue the case that the build quality of modern Moto Guzzi’s is a cut above the average bike.
Jon
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You put forward a good argument there but I still think it’s a problem that will inevitably require a rethink one day. I’m in the process of buying an older cb125f before they put a tft (unnecessarily) on a 125cc bike! I know it’s due to demand and the fact cheap Chinese bikes have tfts so they have to keep up but like you say it’s something to go wrong or become obsolete long before the bike does. Another topic really but, I do not need connectivity, phone calls, messages, etc I need to look at the road and other drivers using there phones and tech so I can stay alive. Bikes should be well made and simple. They are becoming cheaply made and complicated.
And it all depends on how you measure quality.
Matchless and AJS had (by modern standards) very good deep paintwork and neat brazing. But the brakes were weak, the prices they paid for rims meant loads have rusted away and the primary cases never retained oil right to the end.
Enfield had excellent crankshafts but wouldn’t pay a good price for a gearbox after the war. BSA and Triumph forced Amal to reduce metal quality until we got the awful concentric.
Ducati handled well but every major component used to break,
Honda camchains used to require replacement at 10-16 thousand miles .
We all know our Favourite brand’s weaknesses
In my opinion modern bikes are much better in some ways and worse in others.
However i fully agree about TFT & IMUs and data links to the manufacturer.
The picture shows all the instruments i need
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Nah, you’re missing one vital instrument.. a clock 
And ideally it’d be one that lights up in the dark with a dial big enough to be easily read with.. er.. ‘mature’ eyes.!
Some interesting comments, a good thread you’ve started Mr Greenhoward
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I remember the first time I noticed my Breva clocks lighting up red in the dark, I smiled and it felt good, almost over delivering. When my Wife’s tft lights up, well, it’s expected isn’t it…
Charlie Boorman on his long way home bike, (it’s on YouTube) says that the speedo failed but he could work out the speed from the revs and lights failed but fixed with a bit of fettling. Can’t fettle modern bikes with a chip or electronic package that runs everything.
All this talk about electrics is one aspect but and unfortunately, and I do load Moto Guzzi in with this, is the lack of paint quality. The thick coach like paint jobs of yesterday are gone. Even a light polish will scratch modern paint. I imagine it’s due to time /costing constraints?
Don Draper said in MadMen, “people want to be told what do do so badly that they’ll listen to anything”. My point being that in the age of Instagram, actual real life quality is secondary, it would seem.
Wot’s software? 
I can reflash my ECU and that’s enough.
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Most modern bikes leave me cold with all the riding modes, anti wheelie, whispering exhausts TFT screens, poorly mapped fuel injection - They get more like white goods every day - I dont want tft screens and plastic trim, give me carbs, analogue instuments, and a bit of character.
I dont think the quality nowadays is any better or worse than it was in the past.
Russell
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We have just got back from a week in Sorrento and it really amazed me how many old Vespas are still running. I started riding in the early 80s so i am familiar with the models. We used to buy them as cheap transport. Also to tune as the original MSC supplied tuning parts for the right money. We dreamed of rd and x7 ownership.
These late 70s and 80s scooters are mainly a bit battered but the paint finish is still pretty good the wheels look reasonable and the lenses and swich gear are still original. To be fair they would never be entered into a classic show but they are still running well and seem to have lots of life left in them.
By comparison the newer scooters piaggio honda and all the other brands look likely to expire at any moment. So i genuinely believe that standards of vehicles have fallen massively. If a cheap 50cc vespa from the early 80s outlast a 2010 honda then something is a miss.
Funniest bike episode all week was a young girl riding a scooter past to policemen holding a dinning chair in her left hand. Not even a second glance.
Some seriously dodgy driving and overtakes but everyone just goes with the flow.
We could genuinely learn from them.
Hilarious.
Very few guzzi about but a number of ducati monsters.
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I must admit, I think the technology is going to far, this years latest is auto boxes, not for me I actually enjoy riding the bike. Some tech is good ABS and Traction I think are great safety measures and can save a silly accident. Modes, why maybe rain is useful on really powerful bikes but the throttle goes both ways. I have an old ZZR1200 and GSXR 750 SRAD that have nothing and are great fun to ride because you are in full control. I love my Mandello and feel the tech is probably a bit unnecessary but manufactures have to keep up with the Jones’s. I think the overall quality of the bikes is probably as good\bad as its always been I do agree with the awful exhaust box that sits under the Mandello I treat it to corrosion fluid after every ride in a attempt to keep it looking reasonable for a bit longer (lots of smoke on next startup) however we can thank the government legislation for these monstrous exhaust systems.
Paul
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I’ve tried to hold back, but I have to throw a few words in here.
I have a '78 and '81 Yamahas from new. The frame paint didn’t last two years before it had rust along all the welds. The '78 had Hammerite on the frame as soon as the new bike came along. The underside of the tank didn’t even have any paint blown on it, just bare steel underneath. I have a brand new tank for it in a box and that’s the same. Hondas, Suzukis, Kawas all the same. Camchains and tensioners were always a problem from make to make, just different problems. The floating caliper brakes had to be stripped every year because the materials weren’t up to resisting corrosion. Exhaust systems rotted out within two years. That’s why there were so many after-market suppliers around. People didn’t put Pipers or Motads on for the noise back then, it was to keep the machine running and if it sounded fruity, all the better. Batteries lasted 3 years if you were lucky. Japanese and Italian chrome rusted or flaked off in 1-2 years.
Modern materials, coatings, paint, manufacturing tolerance are much better now. Electronics and software bugs are the bane of my modern 'biking existence. Fair disclosure, I did automotive electronics and engine control in a previous lifetime. When it’s done right, it’s brilliant, when it’s done for marketing gimmick, by people who should only be posting on web forums, it becomes dystopian.
So, in summary, I believe things weren’t that good in the good old days, and I don’t think they’re all bad in the new ones. I’ve found modern, two-pack paint is really good, actually. I sold my 7 year old BMW in showroom condition, which you’d never have been able to do in 1980, and our Mandello looks great, and better build quality than BMs or anything else from 1980. Apart from teh lack of grease in anything, from bearings to fasteners.
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Good points. I suppose it comes down to the owner and the maintenance in a lot of cases.
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wife’s tft… i had to reread this, thought it something else 
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Actually, yes - modern paint is probably better in terms of quality. My 11 year old VW Golf has many a stone chip and not one has rusted. Whereas my 1972 Beetle needed paint maintenance (to cure heavy rust) regularly.
The Guzzi has rusted but on bits where there is no paint (hardly a surprise) like the hole for the rear foot pegs which is exposed under the rear fender. Ram it full of grease before it gets salty I guess.
On checking my rose-tinted specs..
I’ve found they do indeed show signs of corrosion, and their colour has faded in some areas..
(Though this all may simply be a reflection of my fading memory and eyesight 
).
Damn.. can’t rely on owt these days.!
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