Poor maintenance takes its toll

Well, it’s been a tough winter for both me and the V7 Stone. I won’t bore you with my own tribulations, but the poor Stone has got to the point where it clearly needs more TLC than it’s been getting.

The bike is now 3 years old, with 21,000 miles. Up to now, the bike has been mechanically fine, as it should be: I’ve kept getting it serviced at what was my local Guzzi dealer about every 4,500 miles because I usually ride all year round and with ‘spirit’, so the early service intervals seemed prudent. Until now, the only problems had been electrical and were sorted under warranty.

So, I’ve been a bit casual about the running gear, confident that regular dealer service had me covered. Boy, was I wrong!

I took up the offer of my dealer’s discount winter service in mid-December. I turned up to find that my usual mechanic no longer worked there, his colleague had been sent home for the day and a 16 year old apprentice would be doing it. I did question this, but was told he was qualified to work on the bike.

He took almost 4 hours to do the service, which I was told was a sign he had been thorough (in hindsight, I’m not sure whether to laugh or frown at this point). The bike was also scheduled for its first MOT, but this was off-site, and the apprentice wasn’t licensed to ride the V7, and of course, they’d sent the adult mechanic home.

So I had to ride it to the MOT testing station myself, which wasn’t a problem, but what was a problem was that the bike failed! The front wheel bearing needed replacing (I had asked the dealer to check). Luckily, the MOT centre was a garage and was able to put in a new bearing.

Since then, I have discovered that the engine oil was overfilled, with at least 50ml sitting in the airbox, and that they had forgotten to change both the gearbox and final drive oil. They also missed that the rear brake bolt had come loose! This, despite them having changed the rear brake pads at my request. How on earth could they have missed this?

This is such a shame, as I felt I could rely on my dealer up until now. But following this experience, I’ve come to realise that I need to restart being more careful with my pre-ride checks and general maintenance.

So, I’ve now changed the gearbox and final drive oils myself. I had to take apart the right footrest assembly because the rear brake pivot was so loose that it completely came undone on the ride home. The result of applying the rear brake with the pivot loose is that the rear brake switch got bent and no longer works. I’ll get it replaced, but will be doing that myself. I’ll check the valve clearances as soon as we get nice weather. Anyway, lesson learnt and it could easily have been a much harder lesson, so for that, I’m grateful.

Can anyone recommend a good Guzzi-knowledgeable independent mechanic in the South Yorkshire, North Derbyshire area?

4 Likes

This is why you should service your bike yourself or learn to, Guzzis must be one of the easiest bikes to service for the home mechanic, it’s all basic stuff. Not everybody has a garage to be able to service their bikes themselves or the confidence to do so and other obstacles, so have to rely on dealers.

4 Likes

I would love to service both my Guzzis myself, but simply do not have the space to do so.

1 Like

Hmm! Brutal little awakener for you. Who can you trust? Answer.. yourself the majority of the time. Recognising that not every owner will be a spanner twirler or should be required to be it nevertheless reenforces the need for eternal vigilance. Especially now that the weather might be picking up in the next month or so the temptation to just jump on the bike and go can be hard to resist.

Routine once over inspections don’t really take long and a bit of ‘wheeltapper’ like checks, tyre and brake checks add to peace of mind before hitting the road. For sure though it should not be necessary right after supposedly ‘competent’ dealership pros have been over the bike. That is just outrageous and I’d be looking for your money back.

Sadly the only answer to it all is the payback of doing your own work as far as practicable. Then you KNOW exactly what has been done and how. Only by getting up close and personal with your bike over time allows your eye and fingies to pick up many of the common gremlins waiting to ambush you. Hey, we can all be caught out though so I am honestly not being sanctimonious about it but mechanics are no different from any other pro, joiners, plumbers and on up to doctors and lawyers. There are cowboys and shoddy chancers in every walk of life. For me, trust has to be earned every time?

4 Likes

My local Guzzi main dealer also overfilled the engine oil by a considerable amount.

I ended up buying an extraction syringe to pull oil out through the filler hole.

Now it’s out of warranty I’ll be using a trusted independent instead.

1 Like

Yeah, I don’t know why they do that. This last service resulted in a lot of oil, but frankly, it’s not the first time it’s happened after a dealer service. If the owners on this forum know to check, I wonder why the dealer mechanics still get it wrong? But at least, thanks to this forum, I do know to check.

1 Like

Two Guzzis!. Sorry, but I’m not feeling sorry for you. Haha.

Don’t feel sorry for me too!

:roll_eyes:

I have been servicing Moto Guzzis for many years and have noticed that the modern motors have sophisticated and complex rebreathing / venting systems that make sump oil levels very sensitive. It doesn’t help that the owners and workshop manuals information regarding engine sump volumes is not accurate and if followed to the letter results in “overfilling”. This probably explains your problem with dealership “overfilling. A colleague and I battled for a few weeks finding the “correct” oil level in a California 1400. Fill it to the high limit on the dipstick and the breather system fills the airbox. We eventually found that a level half way between upper and lower marks on the dipstick results in a fry airbox. The oil volume in the sump is then 3 litres and not 3.5 as suggested in the manual. My 1200 Stelvio runs happily with a dray airbox with the oil level at the “high” mark on the dipstick, ie 3.5 litres. I serviced a V85TT at the weekend and found it had an oil soaked airfilter. The manual sump volume is given at 1700cc. There is no dipstick. 1700cc fills the sump to 90% of the inspection window. I’ll now monitor airbox oil. All the modern bikes have airbox drain pipes so I guess Moto Guzzi expect some oil collection in the airbox. Does anyone else have any insights into this issue? Cheers Phil

2 Likes

The v9 engine capacity is 2 litres with filter

How simple can it be for a dealer to put in two full litres after a drain and filter change.

I think some are just draining then not replacing the filter and then dumping 2 litres in which gets oil in the air box on an overfill.

These bikes are easy for basic diy vs some horror stories from garages :woman_facepalming:

On my V9 exactly 2x litres with filter change rise the level to just below the max. Nothing in the airbox after 300 miles.

If the job is done right and proper care is taken then nobody needs to have oil in air boxes as it will only find its way out and down the sides of the engine/tranny.

Maybe just a useless wrinkle in this discussion? Kind of hard to achieve any kind of apparent commonality model to model? Different frame to engine relationships, different shaped sumps etc. Dipsticks vs sight glass and on and on.

Manuals tend to suggest checking with the bike ‘upright’ and level? PIA if all you got is a side stand. You need a mirror or a mate or a position my body is simply incapable of!

Would it be a stretch for me to assume that oil level/dipstick depth. sightglass marks likely start out on paper or screen? i.e. right at the basic design point. Has to take into account different wheel sizes for example back to front affecting ‘level’? Then, at the back end ‘somebody’ works out the actual volume of oil required to hit the desired mark. About the only thing you are told is “be careful not to overfill.”

Thusly… I assume that every owner of every model is obliged to work out their particular ‘sweet spot’? Whatever the assumed refill volumes are according to ‘the book!’ Throw the book away regarding this? Empiricism is key..

One message I get from the discourse is certainly “forget filling to MAX mark whatever you ride!!” Recipe for a wet airbox. For me personally I am happy with my oil no more than the halfway point.

Now, disclaimer, I actually have yet to do an oil change on my V100 so my plan from all this is with the benefit of having a centre stand I intend to place a wedge under the front tyre to where the rear tyre just kisses the floor. i.e. as level as I can get then do my refill to the half point. Run the engine briefly only then recheck after 10 minutes.

Anyone see any holes in that plan? Happy to hear if you do.

I have no idea how many oil changes I have done in my lifetime? Somewhere in the moderate gazillions I guess.:rofl: With four wheeled vehicles I have not once hit this overfill issue but with various two wheeled machines in younger years have found a few times extreme caution required despite trying to under fill then top up?? I think a common issue is believing that the ‘optimum’ is right on or close to max level? If you keep an eye on your engine reasonably often that should never be a concern to happily live with just on or barely over half. Assuming a properly functioning oil pump that should be perfectly safe.

P.S. Yeah, I know I am a long winded so and so but just want to say there are certain rabbit holes I refuse to go down! Specifically, as I am sure you all are aware, the ubiquitous areguments about pre-filling or soaking oil filters before fitting. I never have and never will. I have never trashed an engine I am aware of. Just a bridge too far for me but feel free to flame me as ill informed if you choose.

I always refer to the manufacturers capacities and adhere to them religiously and have never had any issues.

The problem with bikes is that a 10% increase in oil added by actual volume can register a significant increase on the dipstick vs the same physical amount being put in a car( which will hardly register on the dipstick)

The moral of this is

  1. accuracy is critical on bikes far more than other vehicles. Garages want bikes in and out asap as time is money.
  2. even if you need to use a syringe to add the last 10% then do so. If too much is in then syringe it out.
  3. leave the drain pan in place for at least 15mins

A bike with oil in its air box or with seals put under undue pressure due to overfills is never a good idea on any bike.

2 Likes

Agreed.. all the way.:+1:



Ok - done about 80 miles with the new gearbox oil. Can notice a positive difference going up and down the gears. A lot slicker and definitely less false neutrals :rofl:

I’ve been using Total gearbox and engine oils in all my vehicles for years and rate their oils very highly( fluids often found in LeMans endurance cars)

I know oils are subjective and emotive rabbit holes but Total oils just work so well IMO​:ok_hand:

2 Likes

my v85 was previously always serviced by the same mechanic, who filled it 2/3rds full, as he said when hot it will be almost to the full line.

it turns out dealers fill them on the centre stand, when they should be filled on the side stand. it reads low on centre stand, so if they fill it to the line it is over full.

it wasn’t a problem with a 2/3rds fill, but since he left I’ve had it overfilled twice. most recently was the last service at a different dealer, I checked it as soon as I got it home and immediately had to drain 100-200ml of oil out.

:woman_facepalming: - incompetence is rife among dealers. Even 100ml-150mm too much will eventually get sucked into the air box on a lot of Guzzi’s and potentially, if you go over a bump at speed, oil deposits can get sucked into the intake as the dirty oily deposits are now on the wrong side of the air filter

Everyone is focussed on the oil, the real issue is the loose brakes, surely?

While this dealer servicing is questionable, it takes no skill or invalidates any warranty to go over the bike every few months and check everything is tight. It’s not a car, things shake loose and this is the responsibility of the owner. Found my gearshift lever pivot bolt was loose this weekend, so just nipped that up.

2 Likes

Another one of those stories from the far-distant past… There was a local main dealer who did mostly European motorcycles (including all those odd Italian and Spanish ones :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: ) and who did not have the best reputation when it came to servicing. One day a new Cali III pulled up outside my front door with a very apologetic rider who said I’d been recommended as someone who knew a bit about Guzzis (back then, ‘a bit’ was about right - I had my G5 and a couple of V50IIs). Would I mind checking his bike over as it had just had its 500 mile service and he wasn’t too happy with it. Conversation followed mentioning the dealer, 3X (Three Cross) Motorcycles… right. Effectively I did another 500 mile service and ended up rebalancing the carbs (yep), setting the tappet gaps, etc., etc.. The oil levels were the only things about right. I also did a repeat 1000 and 5000 miles services and not once was everything done as it should have been. Going to 3X kept his warranty up but the servicing was… see above.

Here’s another recent tale of a dealer (seriously) messing up.

Last month I bought a new Royal Enfield Bear 650, after a really positive test ride. I arranged to pick up the bike a week later, giving them plenty of time to prep the bike. The sale went through smoothly, and I enjoyed my 50-mile ride home and a couple of short trips around town. But just as I was getting ready to go on my second, longer ride, and whilst manoeuvring the bike on the driveway, the handlebars suddenly slipped in their mounting. I then discovered that the handlebars were only being held by the top bolts on the handlebar clamp, with the bottom two only hand-tight! I’d been planning to ride on some nice twisty B roads, so had the bars slipped at that point, I don’t want to imagine how bad it might have been.

I then checked the rest of the bike; both tyres were over-inflated (the front by 3 psi over the max), and the tyre valve stem lock nut was slightly loose on the back and very loose on the front, which I adjusted alongside the tyre pressures. I also found that the clutch lever adjustment nut was loose. All other critical bolts were tight, although since I didn’t know the torque values, all I can say is that they were more than hand tight, and oil and brake fluid levels appeared fine.

I emailed the dealer, who apologised, although when I took the bike in for its break-in service a couple of weeks later, they were more defensive, claiming that these bikes are shipped completely built at the factory in India. When I pointed out that they’d charged me for a pre-delivery inspection, they didn’t have an answer, but remained defensive.

So, this state of affairs, where main dealers seriously underperform, is not just a Guzzi thing. Finding a good old-school mechanic whilst the warranty is in place has been essential for me. Luckily, I’ve found a local dealer with a very good rep. The dealer who sold me the bike won’t be seeing my money again.

Another lesson learnt and luckily no serious harm done - but it could have been a very different story.

2 Likes

Can you name and shame or give us at least a clue to who the dealer was?