I am going to buy some Mistral carbon cans for my bike - should I go for remapping the fuel injection at the same time? Does anyone have any experience of using a Power Commander - they seem very expensive.
Thanks
Hi Aldo, just joined the forum so please forgive this very late answer to your question. The Power Commander solution works well, and you can take the bike to one of their tuners to map it accurately with the bike on a dyno. I am running with K&N’s and a pair of Leo Vinci GSXR carbon cans that I had some adapters made up for. You can also tweak to your hearts content using a PC at home. Phil
But not as good as the Cliff Jefferies myECU. My opinion of the Power Commander is its probably more use incorporated in a mooring block for a yacht alongside a bit of concrete.
Just my view.
Must admit the Jeffries solution is probably fave, to the extent I have just bought a suitable ecu off the bay to scavenge for box and connector, and am on the verge of ordering a kit of parts (result will hopefully be that there will be an extra mooring block available. If you can get a Commander at the right price (as I did) then it makes a passable solution to loads of the lumpiness that the Sporti suffers from. If you aren’t competent with a soldering iron, the complete Jeffries unit isn’t a particularly cheap solution. Phil
Agree, although soldering skills need to be reasonable tenacity is also required.
When I bought my bag of bits the $Aus / £ rate seemed fine and I didn’t even consider a PC. Its another “box” between a “box” and bits so doesn’t appeal to me.
CJ is somewhat curt in his level of detail to individual build / commissioning queries* but…the forum is a very useful resource and, there seems to be an ongoing development of the device which is reassuring.
- This is because he deals with so many and its not his full time job. You will get your answer but have to work for it.
The cheapest solution to removing the flat spots on a 1100 sport injection is replacing the standard chip with a will creadon one its not a performance chip its mapped to remove the flat spots designed in for emission testing
Regards Keith8 Valve Eagle2014-07-21 08:48:41
Phil, (and others), if anyone needs a spare box to make a My16M Jefferies ECU then the WM16 unit from a Fiat Punto i.e. is a suitable donor.I have a few sans lids kicking around which prospective MY16M builders or purchasers are welcome to have for the cost of postage and a small donation to my beer fund.
Cheers Guzzi Jack - thats good to know. The original bike ones are a bit like Rocking Horse excrement. Does that box include the pin outs to fit the loom connector too?
Ah that is interesting as I have a Will Creedon chip and always thought (in addition to removing said flatspots) it was a performance upgrade.My Sporti came with it and Mistrals = crossover and it doesn’t hang around. In fact the previous owner has a mark on the tacho just below 6K RPM, which once this is hit, makes the bike very quick indeed.What therefore is the difference between the Jeffries and the Creedon chips in terms of performance???
Cliffs gizmo is an ecu replacement - either in kit or built form. It allows the map to be modified completely so you can in essence tune it anyway you want. The map can be modified via a laptop or tablet running Windows or Android respectively and more recently via bluetooth which allows logging on a run and analysis later. The arrays for injection duration and spark advance, amongst other parameters, can be altered and if you want, by adding a lambda sensor (or 2) you can get the ecu to adopt the “ideal” set up by selecting closed loop mode. Your own Dyno rolling road.
If the bike is running well with Will Creadons chip I would leave it. I had an issue with the general “jerkiness” of piss poor fuelling so went the myECU route. It takes some time to finesse but I enjoy the process.
See this for more more detail:-
http://www.myecu.biz/MyECU/index.htm, check out the forum too - menu on left hand side of website.
Ahh OK that makes sense -probably a bit more technical than I would like to get too involved in (as in I would no doubt b*gger it up).More than happy with the Creedon on the Sporti and will stick with it…
Yes, the WM16 ECUs from the Fiats are identical with regard to the housing and connector - only the PCB/chip was different, so a rebuild into a MY16M is the same as using a dedicated WM16M for the bikes. And the offer stands.I can only talk from the perspective of using the MY16M on my, (and other’s), Centauros but…Having experienced the difference between MY16M equipped bikes with Phil A’s mapping and ‘chipped’ and standard ones, I’d be onto it like a tramp on chips - it makes that much difference on the hi-cams at least.Off the shelf mapping is not a problem as plenty are willing to share, and whilst it might not be as dialed in as a ‘bespoke’ version for your individual bike, it will work far better than anything else out there - including ‘chips’ and PowerCommanders. Ask Dave Wye, he’s running the same MY16M map in his big bore hi-cam as I am in my standard unit.Dunno if it is the same scenario with the Sporti as the Centauro but the flat spot in O/E trim at circa 4-4.5k rpm is eliminated with a simple airbox modification in conjunction with MY16M mapping. In fact there is no power ‘curve’ as such, it’s all there in a straight line from just off idle to near the (user defined), redline with no steps along the way.The standard ‘colostomy’ crossover also works well once mapping is addressed - as Dr John said, the more they increased the volume, the more power they found! Who says straight through X overs are the way to go? (Straight through X over manufacturers, obviously!).
guzzijack2014-07-21 20:16:43
very interesting read ,my corsa is running a Baines racing chip seems to work ok
My issue with the original ecu was it had limited tuning facility. I guess you could retrieve the original Magneti Marelli chip map, modify, and reflash it with a new one, however I decided that even that didn’t give me the added facilities of myECU. It allows you to see the parameters as you drive. Oil temp, air temp, baro pressure, battery voltage, inj duration and afr are all possible to view on the old optimiser - which Cliff no longer seems to punt - probably due to the fact it’s a “heads down” distraction.
It does make trouble shooting far easier though by virtue that you can see if the sensors are working - apart from the crank sensor but even that could be coded no doubt.
Interesting about the colostomy box - I hadn’t heard that take on it before. I might refit and try it. I have junked the air filter box and fitted K & Ns and info from user Raz, in Sweden, supports the view the Sportie runs better with it - albeit with holes in the box to allow it to breathe better. Maybe the original piping design was indeed the optimum. The orginal chip perhaps being the weak link.
So - in summary - myECU allows all this to be tested - it allows a great deal more flexibilty and, more importantly, is about a quarter of the original ecu card price. It can also be repaired with bits from RS components / Maplin and the like.
Perhaps Guzzijack you could PM me with the beer fund and postage cost - I would like to pop my original ecu into it for, if and when, I sell the Sportie.
Here are the details of the airbox modification that Phil A has developed plus other dyno verified results along the way: (everything from here on is his)
Each one of these pieces of data is independant of the others.
If your remove the original mufflers off the inlet and bell mouth the
inlets to approx 35mm you get approx 2hp between 4500 and 8000rpm.
If you remove the filter but leave the lid in place, you get approx 1.7hp.
If you drill 3 one inch holes in the top rear of the air box lid (one in
each corner an one 2’’ forward in the center) and retain the air
cleaner element you get approx 1.5 hp.
These holes have since been improved to the shape shown below.
If you remove the lid and leave the filter in place you get approx 3.5hp
from 4300-5500rpm it increases steadily to approx 7hp at 6300 the
tapers of to approx 2 at 8000 or so.
Once you totally remove the air box but retain the std bell mouths on
the injector bodies the gains above 6300 do not taper off as above with
the gain being approx 5hp at 8000 or so.
If you increase the bell-mouth of the lid, id to approx 50mm and retain the holes in the rear you get just over 5hp all up.
Probably the most noticeable gain with this last set up is 5hp in the middle of the dip at 4000- 4800rpm.
Once you remap the My16m to suit this you get nearly 20% increase in torque at 2800rpm, with increases all the way through.
In fact you end up with 92% of the engine’s torque available all the
way from 2800rpm to 8200rpm. and about 7hp in the best spots.
Hope this sheds a bit of light.
To do the bell mouths you will find that you will need a hot air gun and
two glass bottles. One with a longer thinner neck and one with a
shorter steeper neck.
Start with the flatter one and get the outside part of the bell done
first. Then use the more tapered one to “throat” the bell. Yes I know
this soundsbottomabout, but you will see why as you do it. “all is not
always as it seems”
Another tip is to heat the plastic in the exact place you want things to
happen. You wont get much if any heat transfer through the plastic.
Heat the plastic until it goes “Shiney” that is its critical
temperature. Dont try and do too much re- heating on top of each other.
Simply heat it up… do some molding then quench it with water. Then
repeat the process.
If you keep adding too much heat on top of each process, you will get the whole thing out of shape.
Yes, the hole sizes are just a comprimise on noise and filter life.
If you want maximum power, throw away the airbox and the pods and put bell mouths on the injecter bodies. END quote.I’ll add that the above modification along with the MY16M mapping eliminates the flat spot - at least to my seat-of-the-pants dyno as I can’t detect it now. I always smile when owners of unmodified hi-cams talk about it really coming on the power at 4.5k revs, when it’s really just dragging itself out of the flat spot caused largely by the pressure wave in the airbox. How much better to have it pulling like a train virtually all the way from just off-idle to WOT!
guzzijack2014-07-22 11:42:34
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. Todero and Dr John had a long and successful track record of developing the Guzzi V twins behind them, so we can probably discount there being any fundimental issues on the engineering front.But it was the early days of EFI and there were serious pressures on everyone to get the bikes to market - especially the original Daytona after it had made such an impression at preview. I think they just ran out of time and the WM system was the bike’s Achilles’ Heel - now suitably addressed by Cliff and others so that the engines can show their true potential.