Stelvio 1200 roller tappets

I am intending to buy a 2012 stelvio ntx which the engine numbers are after the AC12596 and so should be factory fitted. This is the pic sent to me of the area - looks right to me but can someone confirm these are indeed rollerised tappets under the rockers !? Many thanks Hugh

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https://forum.motoguzziclub.co.uk/uploads/default/original/2X/8/88edc48ed76eb8bd10bdf58d85b947785420c9b5.jpeg

Have a look at this.

I would say it has maybe but to me the pic you’ve been sent is a bit unclear. Ask for a better pic?

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Yes the angle of the pic isnt great but the more pics I look at the more I think they are rollerised - the wider hole and shape of the tappet branching off, cant actaully see the roller but the space for it is there ? Youre right with your pic, the flat tappets are so much smaller in a smaller hole ? Hoping so for sure :thinking:

If you look at the top left one I think you can make out the roller but I don’t want to say I’m certain.

As you say the angle of the pic doesn’t help does it.

As well as asking for a better pic have a look at the Griso Ghetto…It’s an Australian resource but they will always help folk and don’t be uncertain of asking for an opinion.

Wishing you all the best with your enquiries.

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These are flat tappets. You can see they are smaller than the ones in your photo. I think you can be happy the bike you’re looking at has roller tappets.

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@TcT rocker cover off to check if they are the old cam follower type.

Or

You can do the left hand side (sitting on bike) without dismantling much to remove the tappet block and check for wear.

The main difference between the kits is if there is 2 “spark plug “ holes

You can see from the picture the difference between old and new followers

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Hmm - thats interesting ! The 2012 stelvio im looking at does seem to have factory fitted rollerised tappets (picture above and engine number) but one hole at the top for the spark plug !? They are supposed to be twin spark so is the other on the inner side of the head like on my Griso 1100 ? When did they start with the two in the top ?

Sooo ive done a little more research - its really confusing as some places seem to talk about a single spark head, but I think they were all twin spark but with one plug at the top through the rocker assembly and one on the inside of the head - early 2012 were like this with some having rollerised tappets, then later in 2012 a revised cylinder head twin spark heads with both at the top with rollerised tappets !? Would this be correct ? :person_shrugging: Guzzi seemed constantly change things :roll_eyes:

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I ended up buying the wrong kit :roll_eyes:

That’s why it looks different.

Hi Hugh, I understand your confusion. Early CARC motorcycles used the 1200cc two valve motor and this motor had twin spark plugs per cylinder. These motors had push rod valve operation and had no problems. The later CARC models used the four valve motor and it is this motor that had tappet problems. These motors have a single spark plug per cylinder. Moto Guzzi carried out a number of updates to the flat tappet four valve motor before reaching the final roller follower solution. This resulted in three update kits being available. They were A. B and C kits. Your first job is to determine whether or not your potential motorcycle has roller or flat tappets. If it has rollers you are fine. If it has flat tappets you need to determine which kit you need to update to rollers. There are very detailed write ups available, I think Guzzitech published a number of these. Hope this clears up your confusion and sets you on the right path. Cheers Phil

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Hi Phill and thanks for the reply.

I did a little more digging and find 2010 -2013 there were multiple changes ! Yes apparently early 8v 1200 were single spark, in 2011 they went twin spark with second plug to the tank side of the head, this with revised cam profiles, and new ecu mapping. The ntx also got ATC, 32L tank etc. aparrently engine number prefix AC on 2011/12 models have these upgrades. Blimey - and then there was the rollerised tappet update (after AC 12596) which also came in through 2012 :face_with_peeking_eye: I cant find when they changed to both spark plugs through the rocker box on top of the engine. You sure have to be determined to want a Guzzi to put up with their games !

Hi Hugh, I’m not sure where you are obtaining your information but I don’t think it is correct. The early Norge, Griso and 1200 Sport came with the 1200cc two valve motors. These had twin plugs. All 1200cc Stelvios had the four valve motor. All 1200cc four valve motors have single plugs. However the 1400 California motor does have twin plugs. The two valve motors had no valve gear reliability issues. My previous note tells you the progression of the four valve failures and if you’ve found the Guzzitech articles you’ll be acquainted with the actual detailed changes that Moto Guzzi made to try and resolve the problem. As mentioned by others, to put your mind at rest get the seller to remove a rocker cover and photograph the rockers that will confirm whether it has rollers or not. I own a 2010 Stelvio that I bought secondhand from a non Moto Guzzi dealer in the UK. I was assured that it had been rollerised. This was not the case and the tappets failed whilst riding in Italy. A local Italian dealer diagnosed the problem and confirmed which kit was required from Piaggio. Piaggio then provided the conversion kit free of charge. I had to pay the labour charge but got most of that back from the UK dealer. The bike has covered 25000kms since with no issues. My understanding is Piaggio committed to supply the roller kits FoC to cover any flat tappet failures. Maybe they have withdrawn that offer as the last flat tappet motors were manufactured back in 2012. Good luck. I hope this helps, maybe other members can add their thoughts and correct any errors in this note. Cheers Phil

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My understanding (from my GRiSO & Peter Roper) is that

(1) Phil Sknner is right

(2l Piaggio tried to be good suppliers but we’re let down by the 1200 CARC engineering team:

first they said that chilled cast iron followers would fix the problem: so Piaggio fitted these FoC. They didn’t stop the wear.

Second the engineers produced tappets with DLC (diamond like coating) as a fix Piaggio fitted these FoC. They didn’t stop the wear and the DLC flakes ruin other bearings in the engine.

Finally the engineers came out with roller followers. These work, but require a new cam carrier and by this time the engines were in their second or third update; so three kits of two sets of follower, cam and cam carrier kits were developed. At first Piaggio fitted these FoC but as the years went by and the € bill went up they reduced the offer to free parts only. Then free parts only if a full dealer service history was provided. Now you have to buy the bits and availability for some bits is scarce.

Pete Roper has contacts and has sourced the bits for many people. He has written a guide to all of this on GrisoGhetto. I think Guzzitech copied most of the guide but I am not convinced they fully understand it ( I also know that they don’t really care about the riders if they can’t make their slice of profit out of them).

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Thank you both for your replies - Im Ok with being corrected if my info is wrong, there does seem to be misleading info out there. Im simply trying to understand the changes so as to be confident the stelvio NTX I am buying has indeed these rollerised tappets. Single/twin spark was a bit of a side issue. The pic sent by the dealer is at start of this discussion and the engine No is after AC012596 by a couple of hundred. So I am reasonably confident its a rollerised and was hoping thats factory production stage.

Many thanks for all your input - I will continue to try to understand and seek out truth ! Hugh

100% rollerised

I think people are overcomplicating this a bit and not really answering the question.

The top end in your photo is rollerised.

You can tell because roller heads have a larger opening without the inner sleeve with no gap around them you see on flat tappet setups. Shine a light through the holes and you’ll see the two arms/forks that carry the rollers.

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Also - you don’t need to take the entire top end off to confirm that, that’s unnecessary

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I bought a Stelvio with engine no : 012523 ie just 60 units before they shifted to rollerised tappets.

I am assured that these last flat tappets fixed most of the previous issue - but obviously they moved on to rollers - so not 100%.

The kits cost £1000s now , if you can find them , and as the whole problem would cost 50% of the value of the bike to fix , I’m going to roll the dice for a while and have a good check up in the April service.

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I just came across this document on the Gutsibits website that may add a bit of information… It is dated 2013 so may not be that up to date.

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Useful for anyone new to this

But I still think that 1200 4v head CARC is a maginificent riding experience!