V100S quickshifter - anyone dumped it?

Technical V 100
1

The gear linkage on the quickshifter bikes is “springy” due to the switch which detects pressure on the gear lever.

I don’t use the quickshifter much, so I would like to replace the sprung part of the linkage with a solid piece in order to improve the “feel” when changing gear. I assume the non-quickshifter bikes have such a solid piece that I could simply swap out? I appreciate that I will need to unplug the switch itself, or tie it up out of the way.

1/ Has anyone done this before me? Any comments on how you did it, and what difference you felt?

2/ Has anyone done the conversion the other way (ie fitting the quickshifter linkage to the standard V100)? If so, do you want to sell the original V100 linkage?

Any other thoughts or ideas are welcome! :smile:

2

Hi Steve, not sure how change yours back to full manual, however a friend of mine with the quick shifter on the S feels exactly the same and has given up using it. Don’t think he has changed the mechanism in anyway though. I’ll ask when I next see him.

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Hey, thanks, @paulc911. It would be interesting to hear his account.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but two trivial things - the horrible gear change and the 1600rpm idle - really bug me, to the point where I am seriously considering selling the bike. I paid £17k for it in February, and one dealer has already made me an offer: £7k. Yes, that’s right: £10,000 depreciation in 6 months!!

Even if that is unrealistic, I’ll still have to take one hell of a hit on it, though. That’s why I am hesitating.

4

Steve, it is a Moto Guzzi! The niggles you have will either disappear as you put on more mileage or you will learn to live with the idiosyncrasies. Either way, it will probably cover 100000 miles trouble free.

2 Likes
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Hey, Phil!

I can’t remember the mileage as I’m sitting here, but the gear change issue seems to be due to a seriously draggy clutch - the worst I’ve ever experienced in 50 years of motorcycling. MG have been making bikes for more than twice that, so how on earth they can make such a mess of a simple thing like a clutch is beyond me. I’ve got a 22 year old Honda VTR1000 in my garage, and the gear lever on that snicks through the gears very easily. Same as my VFR800 which I have recently sold and my F800GT before that.

Drag-free clutches and smooth, light gear changes have been prior art for decades, so why on earth MG can make such a mess of it is beyond me.

The idle speed puzzles me. My understanding is that it is baked into the ECU and cannot be changed. But in that case how come mine idles at 1600rpm when the official speed is 1400rpm? (Still way too fast for my liking - Triumph’s T120 idles at 1000rpm).

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Hi Steve, is the gearbox problem actually a clutch fault? I also have a fair experience of riding Moto Guzzis. The “clunk” when engaging first from neutral was certainly there on singles from the fifties (both four strokes and two strokes) as well as V twins from the late sixties onwards. Even the six speed gearboxes from the CARC models suffer from the “clunk”. On none of the motorcycles I’ve ridden had a dragging clutch, the clunk is purely a gearbox issue. The clunk may improve with mileage but it never disappears completely in my experience. It is not related to temperature. Sometimes the very first engagement is quiet sometimes not. Similarly when engaging first after an hours ride can be accompanied by a clunk or can be silent. At NO time does the bike lurch forward. I believe that the clunk is due the the dogs engaging not the gear teeth themselves. Whilst recently in Italy I I mentioned the clunk problem reported by Mandello and Stelvio owners and was told that the problem improves with mileage. Have you tried engaging first with no front brake applied? If so does the bike lurch forward? At least this test will confirm whether or not your bike has a clutch problem or a “normal” Moto Guzzi gearbox. Cheers Phil

7

Thanks for your comment, Phil.

I see it a bit differently from you, although it doesn’t mean I am right! This is how it seems to me:

Pretty much every bike I’ve owned has a clunk into 1st gear from standstill. I think it’s because there will always be some viscous drag from the oil between the plates. The issue for me is how severe it is on the Mandello - without the brake applied it does a jump forward as well as making a worryingly loud bang.

Obviously it isn’t possible to know whether mine is unusually bad without riding another one.

You say that on none of your bikes is it a clutch issue, always the gearbox. Of course it is true that the clunk comes from the gearbox, but it does so because the clutch is dragging. The dragging clutch means that the input shaft is still spinning, so as the gear on the input shaft slides sideways to engage with the adjacent gear the dogs are moving relative to each other, hence the bang and lurch when they engage and bring the spinning input shaft to a halt.

The sudden stoppage of the input shaft forces the clutch plates to slide past each other. The more reluctant they are to slide, the more torque is transmitted to the output shaft and thus the back wheel, making the bike jump forward.

I don’t think any motorcycle makes a clunk from the gearbox alone. You can prove it by engaging 1st gear without the engine running (you might need to rock the bike). It will snick into gear with the gentlest of clicks.

As well as the noisy engagement of the gears, I’ve noticed that “block” changing down into 3rd and 2nd when coming to a halt can be extremely stiff. Again, this seems to be from clutch drag because the only cure is to blip the throttle, thus equalising the torque on the gears.

I summary, all motorcycle gearboxes are noisy because they don’t use syncromesh. The more the clutch drags, the more noisy the engagement of the gear dogs.

That is how I see it, Phil, but you are very welcome to disagree or prove me wrong! :smiley: This is just me trying to get used to my first ever Moto Guzzi. :+1:

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Hi Steve. Your last sentence is perfect. Get used to riding a Moto Guzzi! You will be rewarded in the end, I’m sure. Cheers Phil

1 Like
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I’m already starting to tolerate the transmission. I would, though, like to calm down the idle a bit - I can’t see me getting used to that. I’m going to ask my local Guzzi dealer if anything can be done.

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I should have mentioned that in my previous note. It can’t be helping when all the gearbox components are spinning at at engine rpm of 1600 whilst in neutral. Have you got a centre stand on your bike? It would be worth putting the bike in first, activating the clutch and checking how free the rear wheel is.

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I have tried that, Phil. I pull in the clutch and put the bike into 1st gear. It makes a bang and the wheel immediately starts spinning. Keeping the clutch pulled in, I then apply the rear brake and the wheel stops, as you’d expect. When I release the brake the wheel spins again, but less suddenly: it accelerates up to speed.

In other words, the clutch has a lot of stiction which is what causes the bang as it goes into 1st: the plates stick together so it’s like putting the bike into gear without pulling the clutch in. (Obviously if the bike weren’t on the stand the engine would stall if I didn’t pull the clutch in.) When it’s on the centre stand, it makes very little difference whether I pull in the clutch lever or not - the plates stick together and the rear wheel is instantly accelerated up to speed.

Applying the rear brake forces the plates to unstick. Then releasing the rear brake allows the rear wheel to accelerate back up to speed, but this time less violently because it’s the clutch drag that is pulling the rear wheel, rather than the clutch stiction.

In summary, the clutch has a lot of stiction which is mainly what you feel when selecting 1st gear at a standstill; it also has a lot of drag, which is what makes all the other gear changes noisy and requiring a lot of force on the gear lever.

Sorry for so many words! :slight_smile: I’m just trying to give a complete account.

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I was just going to say: I have two other bikes with similar power output: a Honda VTR1000 and a recently sold Honda VFR800. I’ve also recently owned a BMW F800GT.

Every one of those bikes makes a bang as you select 1st gear at standstill, but in all three cases it is much quieter and there is basically no sudden jump forwards. When riding, the gear changes on all three are much easier and quieter than the Mandello.

I cannot believe that a company that has been making motorcycles for over a century still can’t get a bloody clutch to work properly. This is a £17,000 bike, for f**** sake, and it’s unacceptable that they would launch it with such an obvious and commonplace (it’s not just me) fault. What were they thinking? £17,000!!

13

Hi Steve, your last paragraph raises a question about how the Club should be helping you. I read a couple of weeks ago that one of the sins of the Club is to liaise with Piaggio to the mutual benefit of Club members and Company. I also recall that many years ago there was a position of Club Liaison Officer. Who used to give feedback of meetings with Piaggio at regular intervals. What happened to that position and Club benefit? Maybe a question to bring up at the AGM?

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It is very kind of you to think about that. I don’t think this is the sort of thing the club can help with, because I am completely certain there is nothing wrong with my bike. I’m certain they are all the same, but many owners just aren’t bothered about it. I do believe that the behaviour I so dislike will be “normal”, or “within the design parameters” as far as Moto Guzzi are concerned. After all, it has never missed a gear or jumped out of a gear. Also, the banging doesn’t seem to do any harm.

If I were MG and a customer complained about this, I would say “There is no fault, and if it bothers you, you should have picked it up on the test ride and bought something else.” And to be honest, they are absolutely right.

I’ve found that loads of things don’t become apparent on a test ride because the whole bike is unfamiliar and your brain can only process so much new information at a time.

At the moment I intend to ask the nearest dealer if there is anything at all that could be done about the idle speed. (FWIW I suspect there isn’t because there is no mention in the shop manual.) If I get no joy, I think I’ll sell it on and try again: the Triumph T120 is tempting.

As for the depreciation, I know it will be shocking, but I’ll just have to suck it up. Hopefully the dealer can do some magic with the idle speed and I’ll be able to keep it.

15

Hi Steve. for what it’s worth, my 30 minute test ride on the V100 Mandello S left me feeling the same about the Quickshifter. It was as though one had to provide just the right inputs for the QS to work smoothly, which renders it pointless because you have to do that with a non-QS fitted bike. The one I tested had around 600 miles on the clock. I also experienced the clunk into 1st but overall I really enjoyed the ride (just not quite enough to win me over from the V85TT I rode just beforehand).

As these bikes feature such advanced electronics, it is plausible that a software update may address some of these symptoms.

Jon

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@SteveThackery - Hi Steve, I experience a clunk in to 1st gear too although it is probably not as bad as you experience from what you say. What is interesting is that it is not consistent and therefore sometimes worse than at other times. It is definitely improving with mileage, that said I have still not had the 900 mile service yet, albeit it is scheduled for Monday next week. I do feel the clunk is more noticeable than other bikes I’ve owned although pretty similar to a 2017 BMW R1200RT, so wonder if the shaft drive is of any consequence?

I don’t have the quick shifter and find clutch-less upshifts excellent and coming down I only need the smallest amount of clutch lever action to facilitate a really smooth downshift. When I was first changing down and pulling the clutch lever right in the changes were not smooth and quite erratic.

The idle is also similar to yours and does seem high - I wonder whether this is in someway programmed to help reduce side-to-side vibration at low revs (by not having low revs :joy:) and possibly therefore something to do with engine internals? I would welcome having this reduced as well if at all possible and will be asking that question next week.

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Hey, Paul! Do please let us know how that conversation goes regarding the idle speed.

My understanding is that it is controlled entirely by the ECU via the fly-by-wire throttle actuator. It would seem to be the simplest way to achieve the desired idle speed.

However, if that is so, surely every bike should idle at exactly 1400rpm - the ECU software will be the same for all our bikes. But mine is definitely over 1500rpm, and it looks close to 1600rpm, although the idle speed is not completely steady.

I wonder if there is an adjustable throttle stop which prevents the throttle actuator from completely closing the throttle. If mine is open a tad too far, the ECU won’t be able to pull the idle speed any lower than whatever the throttle stop dictates.

If that is so, and the throttle stop is adjustable, then perhaps I could at least get the idle speed down to the specified 1400rpm. Presumably the ECU still wouldn’t let it go below 1400rpm.

All of this is pure speculation, of course! :grinning:

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Yes! I, too, have noticed this. Quickshifter aside, I find that pulling the clutch lever only perhaps a quarter of its travel results in a smooth and much quieter gear change. Pulling it all the way results in a distinct “bang” as the gears engage.

I’ve no idea why this should be - it seems to go against common sense.

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@SteveThackery The clutch lever appears to operate in reverse - less lever action = more clutch action! Maybe they applied the same logic to the clutch as they did the lights…Green headlamp light “on” on the dash = headlamp off and no green light = headlight On - bizarre :thinking:

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Been out for a quick 100 mile ride to get the last few miles done for running-in before its service on Monday. The gearbox is definitely getting sweeter and the clunk in to 1st from neutral is definitely improving already. I’ll get the dealer to change the gearbox oil as well as the engine oil and filter next week so hopefully it’ll continue to get better although there is already a significant improvement over the first 200-300 miles.