V11 - priming the oil pump....any ideas, please???!!!***

Technical Big Block Spine frame models
1

I serviced the V11 Sport the other day, and like a Muppet I left the oil draining longer than usual (like overnight!). Unaware of the impending troubles this would cause, I fitted a new oil filter, filled the sump with 3.5 litres of fresh oiI, took the plugs out, removed the ECU and Fuel Pump fuses and started to crank her over until the oil light went out - or so I planned. Only the light didn’t go out. Or flicker. Darn.

With frequent pauses to be kind to the starter motor, I must have cranked for over 5 minutes in total. Normally after an oil change I am talking 2-3 seconds cranking max to prime the oil pump. So, I took out the oil pressure switch and the oil gallery behind it was completely dry despite all my efforts cranking. Hence the lamp not extinguishing. So I squirted in oil from an oil can. It ran down very slowly, so I put back the switch and connected up the wire. I switched on and no oil pressure light. Without cranking. So the switch works as screwing it in against the column of oil I squirted in was sufficient to trigger it. I checked out the oil pressure switch wiring by earthing it - & the idiot light came on fine. So the warning light electrical circuit works. I reconnect everything, switch on the ignition and all the lights come on the dash as they should. Crank it over and the oil light stays on like before. Bu***r. So I took out the oil pressure switch and the gallery was dry again!

I checked the dipstick and the oil level is also suspiciously high (ie well above “Max”) compared to when I have previously changed the oil (like, every year for the last 12 years), despite pouring in a measured correct amount. So the upshot is, clearly the oil pump hasn’t self primed, has an air-lock and all the oil galleries are dry of the slippery stuff.

So…long story short, does anyone PLEASE (!!!) have any ideas/ solutions/ mantras to recite or whatever as to how I can get the blankety blank oil pump to prime - preferably without a complete strip down of the bottom end of the motor?

Thanks in advance, and the moral is, change the oil as soon as the old stuff has stopped dripping out and all the galleries and pump have not drained dry. You may now laugh mercilessly :smiling_imp:


Postscript: The solution!! :laughing:
So thanks to Dr Baldrick (who in between laughing mercilessly admitted he had done exactly the same on a Centauro a while back) I have fixed the issue! Remove sump, undo the 4 allen setscrews that hold the oil-filter attachment/thermostatic valve/oil pressure relief valve assembly and remove the assembly completely. Invert and fill the machined cavity where the oil-filter screws in with oil, fill the filter brim full with oil invert and quickly screw the filter onto the mounting spigot… Fill the oil pick-up pipe with oil and cover (I used the finger of rubber glove held on with a twist tie) so that when the assembly is returned to the position it fits in the sump, oil does not drain out. fill with oil every available oil-way on the filter/valve assembly and place on the sump pan. Where this assembly fits under the crankcase, there are 3 oil feed/return holes. Get an associate to crank the engine over whilst you squirt as much oil as you can into each port with a good old pump action oilcan. Then, quickly replace the oil filter/valve assembly in position and re-insert allen screws. Pour oil into the mesh filter housing in the sump and whilst offering the sump up, remove the twist tie and rubber glove finger from the oil pickup pipe (make sure it all exits the sump!) and push the sump pan all the way home, screwing in the retaining bolts finger tight. Remove the oil cooler flexible hoses from the front of the sump and squirt oil in until it starts to run back out to prime that end of the system, then replace the hoses. make sure that the sump retaining screws are torqued down correctly and pour in 3 litres of fresh oil into the sump filler.
Now moment of truth time, crank over the engine (you still have no spark plugs in and the fuses for the fuel pump and ECU removed)after the 3rd 3 second burst the oil pressure warning light went out and stayed out for several seconds when the ignition was on without cranking. Spark plugs back in, fuses replaced, choke out and fired first time with oil pressure warning light going out immediately and staying out. Fixed (touch wood!)

Moral, no matter what anyone tells you, V11’s are different from other Guzzi’s!! Even if it is just don’t let the oil drain overnight as it DOES completely empty the system and the oil pump will not pump air… :mrgreen:

2

When I do a oil change on my V11 I fill the oil filter before screwing it back on, apart from that I have nothing. sorry and good luck

3

Me too grossohc, but not this time, coincidentally. However, I have pulled out the new filter and it does have some oil in it, though not full. I shall fill it and before I re-fit it I have had a suggestion to try squirting oil up the oil-way holes in the filter housing (not the threaded spigot). I’ll report on the outcome. Thanks again!

4

Never heard of this before.

Leaving the sump to drain would not empty the galleries. Unless you took the sump off. But even then have never had a problem. Wasn’t a V11 tho but not sure how different they can possibly be. How is the filter attached?

5

You did remove the film off the filter?

6

The filter is attached in the normal way, via a threaded hollow spigot in the sump. The V11 has a circular access port with a threaded cover in the base of the sump which enables one to remove the filter cartridge without taking the complete sump off.

When I looked on-line, the problem I have (which is effectively pump cavitation) is very common on certain cars (especially those with the Rover V8 engine) and other motorcycles where the oil pump is mounted considerably higher than the oil level in the sump where the vehicle has been left standing unused for a long time, or the oil has been allowed to drain for longer than is normal for an oil-change. Certain types of pump (I believe gear type not lobe type) are more prone than others. Guzzi fit gear type.

I need to know how to prime the pump without resorting to a major engine strip-down to get at it (its driven by the timing chain!) And yes, I have it on very good authority that leaving the sump to drain for a long time (especially when the motor is hot) can drain oil from the galleries and mor importantly from the oil pick-up /suction pipe. The pump will not pump air :nerd:

7

Yup

8

I wonder if pumping oil from an oil can down the oil pressure switch hole would push enough oil down the right places to get it primed?
It’s easier than taking the front cover off to get to the oil pump,
Or alternatively drop the filter back out and fill that with oil.

9

Dismantling the oil pump is no good. Will just be in pieces and you can’t make empy air hold oil while you put the pieces back together around it.

Don he tried squirting oil down where the pressure switch goes in, it just filled up.

Don’t get this. Often had the sump off, so all oilways drained out, sump and its galleries all washed out with paraffin. Back together, fill up, start up, works no problem. But again wasn’t a V11.

However you’re not starting it are you?

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