Can anybody help me on a somewhat worrying subject.
I have bought a guzzi café racer from a supposedly reputable dealer. and having had quite a few problems with it along with other issues now means I want to sell it.
The tonti frame has a moto guzzi vin plate, and a number also stamped on the frame. The issue is the V5c states the frame number to be KD11, which is virtually illegible on the guzzi vin plate. The number stamped on the frame states VV17.
The bike is on an “M” plate and states 1995 on the V5c.
The only KD prefix I have found seem to be for dutch registered Cali 1100, but this is 1997 /1998, and the VV might reference a Le mans 5??
Can anybody help unpickle this? Should both sets of numbers always match?
If it is a cafe racer the donor parts could have come from anywhere, and of any age. The bike may have started as the frame or the engine but it sounds like not both from the same bike. This is not unusual. VIN plates can be bought from India and you can stamp what you like on them. Engine and frame numbers rarely match as they factory didn’t work like that in the Tonti frame era. It is possible that it was a 1995 bike, that then had an engine and/or frame swap possibly due to an accident or just what the builder had to hand. It is also possible that the bike was 1997 but had an earlier registration plate put on it as in cherished numbers?
The main things are does it run well and do you enjoy it?
The bike is a bitsa, and the engine and frame came from different models.
I am not worried about the engine number, which is stamped on the engine casing.
What is worrying me is the two frame numbers are different. The vin plate has been removed and replaced, as the frame has been powder coated. What I am really trying to find out is if there are two numbers on the frame (a stamped on one and a plate) should they match???
I am worried in case “someone” has got a written off bike and used the frame (hence the stamped on number still being on it) and rebadged it with a different vin plate so they could register it. Done a piss poor job of stamping it as well, as it is almost illegible.
The two sets of numbers are reasonably close to each other, would an MOT tester, or worse a insurance inspector pull this as an issue??
You might have thought if it was an issue the “someone” would have ground off the stamped number before the frame was powder coated and just left the one vin plate number, which is what is the number on the V5c?
The MOT tester has to put the frame number into the test computer, if it doesn’t match with what is on the DVLA records you will have a problem. Which frame number matches with the log book? If it is on the frame then remove the VIN plate. If it is on the VIN plate then leave it as it is or buy a new one and get it engraved better.
It all sounds very fishy to me.
The Holland Guzzi club has a database of frame numbers and VIN codes. KD seems to come up as a California around 1997.
As a matter of interest, is this a high neck cali frame or is it all completely wrong? Do the late LeMans have the high neck frame?
The number stamped on the head stock, is the number that should be on the vin plate.
It could be a rite off or stolen / cloned.
Buzz, that may of course be true but it is not necessarily the case. My bike lost its VIN plate at the shot blasters about 30 years ago, and the number on the frame is barely legible. It caused me a lot of aggro with the DVLA as the MOT tester did not enter the correct frame number into the computer. I had to have the bike examined before they would let me have my documents back. Best to match what it says on the log book for an easy life.
My bike has also been written off but that does not mean the end of the story.
OP check the frame number and the VIN number and let us know if either matches the log book. If neither do you need to contact the DVLA or speak to whoever you bought the bike from. Good luck
There are various people that sell VIN plates eBay etc, not really the correct way to resolve the problem, but it would get you out of a sticky hole.
You do want to try and avoid putting yourself in the hands of the DVLA - they can make even the easy things hard.
The bike I commissioned from the same dealer as Silo was supposed to be based on a Le Mans 2 donor bike and the V5 frame and engine numbers supported this.
While all the problems with the (expensive) bike were being assessed it was found that the frame was a high headstock version WITH THE FRAME NUMBER GROUND OFF and no VIN plate attached, although the dealer claimed that a plate had been fitted (presumably carrying the number for the LM2)
I returned the V5 to the DVLA and used the engine and gearbox in another bike informing DVLA of the change.
I learned a very expensive lesson.
The dealer in question was Muzzi Moto