Hello. First post here, I’ve checked the forum and don’t think there’s a similar one so…
Had a problem with my '95 Cali injection, ran fine, then after maybe 80-85 miles was ‘missing’/wouldn’t take a throttle when accelerating out of a town. It’d tick over, but not pull. I’d recently replaced the reg/rec with a pattern part however this is giving 14.2V at the battery, so didn’t appear to be the issue.
Due to age I decided to renew the fuel filter and, while I was on, the pump.
Stripped it down and looked for parts (wrong way round!!)
The costs I was seeing at a dealer were eye-watering and the pump was out of stock anyway. Costs are: Dealer: Filter £120.16, Pump £634.76 (OOS). Total £754.92 (not including delivery…)
So I cross referenced parts with the identical part number for cars (Fiat, Lancia, Alfa, etc.) Filter £17.98, Pump £67.71 Total £85.69 Delivered
£669 difference.
The part number for the filter is 3150400 by UFI (original equipment I believe) and the pump is a slightly higher flow rate Bosch 0 580 464 070 - note flow rate not pressure, the OE Bosch one has been superseded twice from what I’ve read. Any excess to the injectors should still flow back to the tank via the return line.
I’ve still to install, but they are both exactly the same physical dimensions/thread size etc.
Just thought it may help someone - happy to give details of the suppliers I used to anyone wanting them.
cost for doing the fuel filter job is down to time and labour. unmodified the filter is a real pain to get at.
I added a metal quick-release connector to the tank return, taking 30 minutes off tank removal time.
The make the filter as accessible as possible. Take off the air filter cover (do air filter renewal and air-box clean while you are in there), release cable ties and ease the loom out of the way. possibly taking off the pressure relief valve, or at least taking it off the frame, makes more room. then, as i recall, undo the hoses before undoing the clip fully. finally ease out to the right hand side (at least i found this easiest).
refitting is the reverse, but make sure everything is tight, as you don’t want any fuel leaks once re-assembled.
fuel pump is straightforward. battery out of course, and position hose clips where you can get at them to tighten up. as a matter of course i replaced the original hoses whilst doing the job first time around.
Have fun.
Hello Stoneman, yes, absolutely best way to get access to the filter is airbox removal I agree.
The costs I’ve given in the threadstarter are purely for the filter and pump alone.
No labour there at all.
Pure markup.
Thanks
Jeff
Wow! At those prices no wonder they are known as “Main Stealers”.
Never paid anything like that. In fact I looked up the Bosch Part Numbers, searched and bought them online (Amazon I think). Fuel Filter was around £20. Never bothered with the fuel pump. The original is still going strong @ 25000 miles.
Not an original idea I’m afraid. Credit to Guzziology.
Jeff, I had a problem on my Stelvio NTX going onto one cylinder as I pulled out of T junctions. Nearly got hit a few times. Looking on the web found loads people had same problem. One brilliant article all the bits he had replaced, checked without improvement.
So, oddly I bought some ignition sealer. I sprayed the fuses under seat right hand side. It ticked over and ran like a Swiss watch. Exactly one month later, back on one cylinder. Sprayed it much more, been good now over two years.
I too had starting problems. Heard all about rewiring new lead. But noticed water in Speedo unit, so drilled hole in top clear part, left in sun for day. Cover hole with tape. Solved problem. Yet to drill hole left had side speedo unit from underneath. On side stand it leans that way.
But do try ignition sealer as it may well have a slight electrical leak?
Peter
hi Jeff
I have a 97 cali Injection like yours, not the EV model with a pump in the tank , mine has a separate bosch fuel pump under the battery box like yours - same issues though - pull the throttle hard and just when you need it to pull, it goes into - well - like limp mode - coughing, spluttering and just about idles, after 30 secs of praying and wriggling the throttle - it clears it self and then takes off like a scolded cat - its bloody annoying and frankly dangerous. My bike was stood for 10 years. In order to recommission, I replaced the “German” Bosch OE fuel pump as it was “kaput” with a pattern pump from Auto doc and replaced the fuel lines from the tank to the pump and the lines from the pump to the injector bodies, the OE fuel pipes had hardened then cracked and leaked profusely … I haven’t replaced the fuel filter though - where the hell does this hide ?
I thought the back of the pump body was the filter section?
Anyway, has it worked for you and cured the fault or is there a “laughing pin” some where in the “giggling box” that needs to be replaced ?
I was concerned that a dry joint or something in the “biscuit tin” that acts as the ECU or vac pipe was leaking or maybe one of the sensors or connectors was mucky and sending intermittent signals - whatever, any advice from cali 1100 I owners with the original fuel system of a separate pump would be greatly appreciated, definitely sick of scratching my head wondering which part to attack first , like all old bikes when you start taking parts off and disturbing stuff, suddenly a simple 10 min job turns in to a big one.
Good morning Paul, short answer is “not sure yet”.
I replaced the pump without too much drama, not that fiddly to get to once the battery is out and a few cables moved, however I lost the light before I managed to install the new filter. I don’t have a garage so I’m limited to daylight and whether (at present) I can feel my fingers…
As for location, you’re going to love this…
The fuel filter on ‘our’ models (and maybe the EVs) is under the top frame tube and between the two top rails that run just below it, so it’s encased in frame tubes, also the air filter is just to the rear of it and there are numerous pipes and cables to further increase the joy.
As has been noted already, removing the airbox is a help, but it’s still a pig to get to the various hose connections and make sure they’re pressure-tight. Not all have to be, but most.
If you’re still emboldened to give it a go, remove the tank (rear bolt, both fuel lines and the two-pin plug to the fuel sender) then carefully lift it up and back to expose the fuel return line. This goes into the underside at the front edge of the tank (near the steering head). Top tip - do this with an almost empty tank, much easier!
The return line undoes with a coupling nut, then lift the tank clear and you’ll see the rest of the job. Airbox removal is fairly straightforward - mind the breather.
After that it’s a case of undoing the hose clamps, easing them off the pump, and jiggling the damn thing out of the gap. Bear in mind it’s going to be full of fuel. At least to begin with 
To quote Mr Haynes - simply reassemble…
If you’ve taken several photos of the layout (sensible) you’ll find reassembly much easier and less stressful.
Now to the gist of your question; does it work?
Not sure. As noted, there are limits to my endurance these days and it’s too damn cold to be messing about out there, so I’ve not installed the new filter as yet.
Even when I do, I tend not to ride when the salt is in abundance as it destroys my lovely metal beasty. I sincerely hope it does! Time will tell. If not then I’m off to hunt electrical gremlins.
Hope this has been at least partly helpful.
Regards,
Jeff
Sounds like something to try, Bulldog BDX should do nicely.
Thanks!
Jeff you’ve helped loads - because it appears when these bikes get to a certain age ( 27 -30 Y) - then the malady appears - I just know my bikes done around 14000 miles , one owner from new and hasn’t run for over 10 years until I bought it in the summer and returned it to life - it doesn’t appear to be mileage related (honestly ~14000 miles its just run in and should be fine ) this would have come up as a known fault via the forums - as a metallurgist, I know that electrical connectors and sensors corrode , solders and electronic components age with time and start to decay so they can cause conduction issues, Hence intermittent faults like this. However, does anyone else have some thoughts or experience on this specific issue with bikes fitted with early Guzzi fuel injection systems ?
The fuel injection electronics are first gen, ( hence the big, car like, “biscuit tin” control unit under the back seat) so will the bike have to go in to a M/G dealer and get wired up to a diagnostic tester to find the fault ? For sure, a few quid on a fuel filter is worth while - but gut feeling says its not that - when a filter is blocked then no fuel arrives- This problem is intermittent, when its clears it self the bike literally takes off, like from crawling at 10 MPH to an arm wrenching 30 MPH in a split second if in 1st or 2 nd gear …it seems to do it more when its warming up, say within 10 mins of running , and then when the throttle is opened up hard, say when exiting a roundabout , no amount of twisting it or moving it will shake off the miss fire , normally around 30 secs to a minute, I actually rode past my local church last week and it stopped - I couldn’t believe it ! My first experience of divine intervention !
Jeff, we really need some advice on the fuel injection system … Carbs are so much easier for home mechanics. it is what it is though and anyone who can assist, there advice would be appreciated
Hello Paul, thanks, just wanting to pass on what I’ve found so far.
I agree that it could easily be electrical, mine is also low mileage, 17,500 genuine miles from new, but as you say, it’s not the miles it’s the years.
All the electrical bits (I think I’m correct in saying) are sourced from a variety of Fiat/Lancia/Alfa parts bins, so the principal components should be available even if no longer listed as such from Piaggio/Guzzi. Just a case of chasing parts numbers.
My ‘fault’ was after a lengthy lay-up of a couple of years, first run out, dry, warm, started after a bit of coaxing then ran fine for 80-85 miles. Rode through Kendal and as I accelerated up the slip-road it did largely what you describe, as if it was on limp mode. Wouldn’t accelerate through it and didn’t pick up, but it had plenty battery, turned over and started fine, ticked over fine, just nothing under load. Recovered home.
Having checked the charging (OK) and earths (OK) I went down the route of fuel starvation (rightly or wrongly, we shall see).
I doubt that I’ll get to test it out much before Spring now, so if you do happen across any electrical malady and a ‘fix’ I’d be very interested!
Regards,
Jeff
Sounds familiar.
When doing this job I went to the trouble of getting the injectors cleaned, serviced and tested (well worth the cost). I replaced all hoses too. Being paranoid I also fitted the small pipe from the intake box to the pressure relief valve (which in itself could be your issue - replacement is the only way of determining if this is the problem). All that this does is reference the valve to actual intake pressure and not the great outdoors.
Finally I rechecked the cylinder head bolt torques and checked/adjusted/rechecked the valvle clearances using the time honoured TDC on comporession via the plug hole method (Never liked the S and D marks anyway).
Since then it has run beautifully.
PS. I have re read your posts. Whilst it could be fuelling, it could also be failing coils or ECU problem. No need for MG dealer for diagnostics. These P8 ECUs are quite primitive and relatively straightforward. You could try Lonelec for a dongle. Power adapter is FIAT/ALPHA, but make sure that it has the correct polarity: some of the cheap ones on fleabay are the wrong way round. Software is GuzziDiag. The official fuel injection manual is downloadable via Greg Bender’s “this old tractor” site, again free. CORRECTION, actually found here (DPGUZZI)!
Further afterthought. While the tank is lifted, check that the throttle+ cold start cables are not kinked or snagging. This alone can give you the nothing-to-all experience.
Good evening Stoneman, just clarifying something; my 1995 1100i (external pump located by the battery) has a fuel pressure regulator valve (item 16 in your diagram) which has two hoses going to it, one from the fuel filter and the other to a Y splitter to the throttle bodies.
There is also small diameter spigot on the relief valve which would vent any overpressure should it occur, however it has no tube connected, doesn’t appear to have ever had one and none exists on the factory diagrams.
Certainly not to the air filter box, where all there is is a drain tube for re-breathed oil mist condensate from the bottom left.
Are we talking about a UK spec Cali 1100i, or a USA one with some vapour recovery system? Mine is UK and has none of that nonsense in it!
The only other small hose is one which connects under the EFi unit behind the l/h sidepanel, into what is described as a pressure sensor, part number GU29727061, is that the one you mean?
Sorry if this confuses matters further, just trying to picture which things you’ve put the small pipe in between.
Regards,
Jeff
This arises from the EFI manual. ( CORRECTION, actually found here (DPGUZZI)!) As supplied the 1100i simply references to atmospheric pressure via the aforementioned spigot.
See page 7 of the EFI Manual:
Note that to keep the injector pressure stage steady, the difference between fuel pressure and intake manifold pressure must also be constant. This is achieved by running a tube between the seating of the calibrated governor spring (3) and the intake manifold.
Reading up on the manual suggests that fuel pressure should be referenced to intake air pressure i.e inside the air box. Minor adjustment I admit.
However, I fitted a tee connector to the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor pipe and added a pipe to the fuel pressure spigot.
Since doing that I have found that it runs much smoother. This in conjunction with the other work mentioned in my posts.
It isn’t essential. Just a refinement.
Mine is a 1997 UK spec as far as I can determine, but first registered in Northern Ireland as "new " in 2001. I suppose it had been languishing in a showroom in the intervening 4 years. Whatever the case I am not fiddling with the V5. It is still a lovely ride.
PS. On refreshing my recall of the EFI Manual I came across page 10 as follows:
ELECTRIC CIRCUIT
Relays
The Weber injection-ignition system uses two socket mounted automotive relays. [The stock Siemens V23073 relays are trouble prone. Suitable substitutes are Siemens V23074, Bosch 0-332-207-307, Radio Shack 900-2391] The grounding connection of the relay energizing circuit is done in the power pack with a guard to prevent inverting the polarities. These two relays control:
• fuel pump power supply
• computer and injector power supply
Clearly dated as Radio Shack have been defunct since 2015. It was acquired by Unicomer Group and operates as a franchise; a ghost of its former self. The Bosch Part Number comes up as a Vauxhall Corsa Item > https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bosch/1154841
Thanks Stoneman, that clarifies things, still not sure why the vent used primarily for any overpressure from the pressure regulator should alter the mix, but it’s worth a go if you say it improves running.
Fair point about the relays, they’re all now 29yrs old, so maybe something else to look at, although I have swapped over several (the identical ones) to see if it was a duff relay.
The hunt will continue…
Hi all , ok I will have a search through and check that “all” the rubber pipes, I guess one old split rubber pressure pipe will pull air or collapse under vacuum / leak via pin hole and then ensure the relays have clean connectors and go from there -you can see the state of this area after 10 years in a garden under a cover -it became a spiders home. I am not familiar with fuel injection systems as all my bike restorations have been on machines with carburetors…just getting the new fuel lines back on the injector bodies was a pig of a job , so I am not really keen on tackling this - these early injector systems are well packed in so to speak, really to fit on a bike designed for 2 x carburetors anda couple of pipes from the tank
I ve included a few before and after pics, its a problem worth resolving as it quite a tidy bike now.
Mines a UK dealer sold machine with a KMH clock- I was told by the only owner it was going to Asia, but the deal fell through due to bankruptcy and a Welsh dealer bought the stock from Guzzi and sold them here.
Hello Paul, that’s a lovely looking Cali you have, very original, I do like the fact you have the oe exhausts (mine rattled the baffles loose, so I fitted s/s Norton ‘Peashooters’ by Armours) and the chromed plastic trim, etc. Mine were cracked and dulled.
I’ve steadily de-chromed mine and fitted lower, wide bars for a more armchair posture when touring, but yours looks great - I always liked the deep red ones.
You’re right, the ‘car parts bin’ EFI system definitely takes up a lot of room, one thing they partly rectified on the later EV’s and such, still, when it works well it’s excellent, we do always have the potential to retrofit carbs and dissy/points of course, only blanking plates and the ‘right’ bits to roll it back a model if a suitable pair of carbs could be found.
I’ll do as you are, check each possible component and work through to a solution. 
I once had a NZ dealer quote me $900 for a fuel pump. I bought an identical spec, used Ford one for about $40.
It was the top tech at the time. Similar-sized ECU on my previous BMW K100 “Brick”.