Here's an odd one - clutch - LM5

So, he’s the problem - although I am feeling slightly silly airing this on a public forum.Started the bike today, and then for some bizarre reason I kicked it into gear without being ready (OK, I was checking that the rear light was working (it was) and then wanted to check that the brake light was working, I stamped on the gear lever instead of the brake lever by mistake - shoot me now!)Anyway, the bike launched forwards as I didn’t have the clutch in, I jumped off it and it fell over.Bent clutch lever and a snapped gear lever plus much embarrassment on my part. But you know, I picked myself and the bike up and pretended it was all part of starting a Guzzi - as you do.Anyway, the problem I now face is this - the clutch lever wont engage, it pulls back a couple of mill but no more. The bike was in gear when it went down but no matter how much I fiddle with the broken gear lever I can’t get it into gear - I can hear it/feel it going into gear but its not engaging -the bike will happily roll back and forth as if in neutral.It seems that the clutch is engaged regardless of where the gear lever is. How would this happen? I’ve got a hydraulic clutch - only obvious damage is a bent lever, the line is good with no kinks or leaks, the M/C is fine yet still the lever won’t pull back and still I can’t engage a gear, any gear. But it was in gear when it went down.It was dark when it happened and the torch on my phone wasn’t powerful enough to shed that much light on the issue. I’ll be back with the bike tomorrow and will maybe notice something obvious but in the meantime any feedback would be much appreciated (aside from calling me a pillock for causing the problem in the first instance)Thanking you in advance

Sounds like the clutch is disengaged not engaged. Therefore the box could be selecting gears but the drive from the engine is lost into the front end. Could the clutch mechanism at the back of the gearbox have been bent so that it cannot disengage? Maybe the gear lever bashed the clutch arm pivot point when the bike fell.

have you looked at the little spigot on the clutch lever to mack sure it hasent jumped out and is not stuck in.
it will seem that the leaver is operating properly, but it wont be engaging the little spigot that connects to the master cylinder. ie. no gears.

Well, I’ve just spent a couple of hours, on my knees in the street providing entertainment to all and sundry.I swapped the bent clutch lever for the brake - that gave me some decent leverage, after a few tugs on the lever the clutch eased and I thought I was in business - but no, my elation was short lived - I noticed fuild weeping from the banjo where clutch is. I nipped that up, topped up the resevior and tried again - clutch lever moves and feels “right” but I still can’t get it into gear - any gear.You can hear the bike going into gear but thats all - it would appear that the clutch is working regardless of whether I have the lever in or not. A passing chap, who said he used to have a LM1 suggested that the clutch diaphram might be out of place.No spigots, levers or anything else down by the clutch seem to be damaged (well there aren’t any spigots or levers that I can see)A forum member has very kindly contacted me by private message and I will call him tomorrow - I’m confident that he will be able to sort it - ideally over the phone but I suspect it might need a more experienced set of hands.Oh well, its raining outside so I’d only have gotten wet going home if I’d managed to fix it earlier!Cheers

ther is a little spigot that is operated by your clutch lever. it operates your master clinder. if its bent or jammed in it will be the same as holding in the clutch lever. hope you get sorted (cheply).

Thanks Buzz - where is this spigot? The hydraulic line runs from the master cylinder on the handle bars directly to the back of the dear box - there are no obvious levers or spigots - the line enters the bottom of the gear box.Please bear in mind that this is a ‘special’ build - I didn’t build it but not a lot is standard on this bike.Maybe I’m not seeing something right in front of me but…Cheers

The spigot referred to, is screwed into the clutch lever and goes into a receiving hole on the clutch master cylinder. I suffered a similar, though reverse, problem on my Stelvio. The clutch was slipping due to this spigot unscrewing itself and being partially engaged when drive was engaged. I could engage gears but the clutch slipped in higher gears when accelerating.

that’s the little bliter!!

Hmm, nope, its not that - I have old AP Racing levers and master cylinders for the clutch and front brak.The braided line goes from the lever/cylinder straight to the back of the gearbox.There is a spigot that comes off the lever but this is all working fine.Cheers

As a last resort, try loosening the hose at a joint somewhere. If you get a spurt of fluid out and the clutch engages drive afterwards, then you indeed did have something holding the clutch master cylinder in the “pulled in” mode.
Brian UK2013-11-10 09:10:15

You may have bent a selecter in the gearbox,So you think its in gear.But its not.
Try the clutch tricks first.They are the cheaper options

  1. Is it actually going in gear? Put the bike on the centre stand or paddock stand, turn back wheel slowly by hand whilst pressing selector lever into second gear. Does it indeed go into gear? The neutral light should now be extinguished if it has.
  2. Try with the bike in gear and neutral light extinguished, pull the clutch in and see if the starter spins the engine. If it does spin, and immediately turns the back wheel too your problem is the clutch not sending pressure to disengage the drive, making gear selection impossible at standstill.

I can select gears on all my bikes when at a standstill regardless of the clutch being engaged or not.This situation sounds as if no drive is going through the clutch, it is permanently disengaged. Agreed, the neutral light is a useful indicator here.
Brian UK2013-11-10 22:10:29

If there was a rule against doing stupid things we would all have been thrown out of the club long ago! I don’t have much technical knowledge but I would tend to examine the obvious things before the more esoteric. The bike went down on its left hand side from a standstill. The clutch and gear lever were broken (I think you were unlucky to sustain this much damage). There is no reason to believe the problem is anywhere other than in the vicinity of the damaged parts. Having just rebuilt the gear linkage on my bike I know that the setup is critical. Could it be the linkage is out of kilter and the bike only appears to be going into gear?

Oh, we’ve all been there at some time or other. Like the time I undid both fork top nuts and forgot to put a support under the sump. That produced an interesting few minutes while I held the bike upright and tried to reach something to hold it there while I got the jack.

Thanks for the replies gents.I haven’t been able to look at the bike this weekend so can’t report back on any of your suggestions.What I can say is that it definatley seems to be going into gear - I can see the shaft on the back of the gear box moving as I push the gear lever up and down - I can also hear it going into gear. I don’t have a neutral light so can’t use that!Hopefully today I can get and bleed the clutch to see if that helps any. I haven’t tried but I am fairly confident that if I start the bike I’ll get no gears - but hey its worth trying.If all else fails I have been offered help by an esteemed forum member who knows Guzzis like the back of his hand - all I need to do is get the bike to him. I’m hopeful that I can use my breakdown cover, if not, its into the back of a van!I’ll keep you updated with any progress.Thanks again for your help and support.Regards

On balance I think (whatever that’s worth) there is something screwed up at the cluctch lever end.

You will have something connecting the lever to the master cylinder. As the bike landed on the LHS/clutch lever did something get bent which is holding the master cylinder from going back, did it get pushed past some stop or other in the master cylinder

As others have said loose the pressure in the line (can you crack the bleed nipple at the slave cylinder?)

If then feels like its in gear when you try to push it you can eliminate the gearbox as the issue … hopefully

Good luck

Well I bit the bullet and called the breakdown service.Its p*ssing buckets here and there’s no way I’ll be able to get a good look at it when its raining and parked up in the street. Its gone to Baldrick, I’m confident that he’ll resolve any issue he finds and it will be returned to me in perfect working order.Had this happened in the summer I’d have been happy playing at fixing it at the roadside but really, is it any fun working in the rain?I’ll let you know what Baldrick advises.Regards

He will get it sorted no bother

any update on this?