No I haven’t, or else I don’t remember. Which is very easy … I only had this to go by ~ “Unfortunately, it were a 3 pin unit - because my V50 mandello built 1979 had a flasher unit with just two pins!One pin with two Brown wires(live+) and one pin with an orange wire.” My fault for assuming ‘pins’ means quarter-inch blades Appendix [edit]: brown wires suggest fusebox, orange wire suggests output to handlebar indicator switch.
Mike H2013-12-15 17:10:43
I’m not sure how many relays there are on a V50 for the indicators…could these be used as replacement relays that are LED compatible?http://www.bikermart.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=WRELED
By the way DO NOT replace the alt charge warning light with ANYTHING but the correct bulb it WILL not work with an LED …the Bosch altenator system requires the oem bulb in the circuit to work correctly.
With elektrikery unless you KNOW what you are doing spend the money on an auto elektrikery expert like Towza of Towzatronics.
The cost of stuffing elektrikery parts is not only expensive but CAN be catastrophic.
Not being funny BUT if you can’t figure out how to add a simple thing like a flasher relay buddy then you could be in a world of misery. I have seen many elektrikery disasters brought about by fiddling with a system that works perfectly well .
The simple replacing of connectors and wires when matched to the oem is reasonably easy BUT some components cannot be easily replaced with dfferent ones…
The standard flasher relay on the V50 is the two pin round aluminium body type.What they are selling I think are the standard relays plus load resistors which make the relay think there is a bulb in the circuit, thus maintaining the correct flash rate.
Brian UK2013-12-15 23:14:25
Thank you, GuzziBear - for informing me about this crucial thing about the warning charge light!!
I will certainly keep the original tiny bulb…
About the other five LEDs - I just had the information, that LED flashers wouldnt Work, as long as traditional bulbs were incorporated in the loom!
And dont be afraid of me acting as an “electrician” - because I have worked on bike Electrics for the best part of 40 years - with quite a succes rate.
The LED incorporation in the V50s loom has puzzled me greatly - as I bought a kit from Gutsibits consisting of 6 leds.
They seemingly do NOT know about the bosch charging system selfdestruct, when you use a LED warning light!!!
So I hope its really true what you say about this?
Further to the LED problem, I got a 3 pin flasher unit to use - and because the V50 just have a two pin flasher unit, I were not able to figure out HOW to let the thing Work…
Later on I learned some facts: 1. LEDs wont Work in a loom with tradirional bulbs - 2. I should have had a two pin flasher unit, with an ground wire - so it wasnt that strange, I couldnt get the “system” to Work
.
Now, the correct parts, hopefully, soon will arrive with the postman - and then I am sure I finally will prevail.
If you are using normal bulbs in the rear indicators and LED in the front, then all you need to do is make sure you have a ballast resistor wired in parallel with each front indicator. This then makes the LED “look” like a normal bulb, so the standard flasher relay works OK.It is not true to say that LEDs won’t work when normal bulbs are also in the system.But check that the LED indicators you have do not already have ballast resistors fitted, some come that way, some don’t.
Brian UK2013-12-16 09:30:11
Please do NOT think I was “having a go” many good mechanics get a shudder down the spine at the mere mention of “elektrikery” and on Italian bikes (and cars) doubly so.
Led’s can cause many annoying anomolies especially in older bikes and cars where the systems were made for specific power useages.
I have even seen a guy who added led indicators and to egt them to work correctly left the old indicator bulbs in the cct…I kid you not…totally missing the point of usine led. IF you have to add resistors you are NOT saving any of the electrical useage on the bike so other than “they look pretty!” they DO nothing for the charging system
I had led repeater bulbs in the indicator cct they worked fine, i have led tail/brake lights no problem, I keep the indicator bulbs as
1 they work
2 they cause no problems
3 I can’t remember when i had to change one
4 IF one does go they are easy to find and replace in 30 secs
I have seen 2 bikes at rallies with failed led indicators…no chance of getting them replaced easily…THAT alone is worth a thought.
The charge warning light is part of the system and as such the 2.2w bulb as fitted is reqiured for it to work correctly. That is on all the Guzzis fitted with the Bosch altenator and system.
To be honest I swapped the eejit lights other than the chage warning for led bilbs and in a year had to replace 3 of them…I had NEVER ever had to replace the bulbs in there… so I went back to bulbs as it is such a faff to get the dash on the V1000 on and off I DID however upgrade all the bulbs other than the charge warning light for 2.8w bulbs so I can see them in daylight…
As an aside after many years with the oem headlamp I fitted one of the newer H4 typle bulbs then noticed there seemed not as much beam on the headlamp…after much 'sperimentation, brighter bulbs and all sorts of malarky, by chance I refitted a Cibie unit and rather than mess about fitted the older round type , lower wattage as per 1976 origional bulb in it… you would NOT believe the difference in the headlamp far better than the Higher wattage H4 ever was… No idea exactly why but I reported ths and I do nkow more than one Guzzisti has junked the newer style headlamp with lear lens for a ring or similar with actual old style reflector and lens on the glass with older style bulb and has found it actually works better than the placcy clear lens with shaped chrome placcy reflector… progress ain’t always a “better” option.guzzibear2013-12-16 12:40:19
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Thank you all for the interest in my troubles - I am very glad for the comments - very valuable points!
I attach a Picture of the transformation of the V50.
Its first time its out in the open air, since I bought it the second of November.
I am presently fiddling with the exhaust - because I dislike the original set-up, with balancer pipe.
I think I am near the final position now- only difference will be the ends of the silencers, they will be positioned about 4-5 centimeter higher to give a more “fresh” look…
About the damned LED turn signals, Guzzibear write he now have 2.8 watt warning lights - mine are just standard 1.3 Watt!
If the alternator from Bosch are very sensitive, how can you then use different wattage?
Also, if the Bosch alternator are so sensitive (as NOT to allow a LED warning light)what will then happen, if the standard 1.3 W bulb burns out??
A question that really have been puzzling me - because I frankly dont understand WHY the alternator wont Work with a LED “bulb”.
I would really appreciate a techical explanation about this!
As I thought …
It will not self-destruct ~ a percentage of the output is fed back into the rotor field winding, how much is determined by the regulator, ergo you could say the alternator “lifts itself up by its own boot-laces”. However it needs some piddling small amount to get it going in the first place, i.e. from the battery via the dashboard bulb, otherwise it may not start up. Would be like no alternator output then.
Fortunately system isn’t that precise, any small current from a small Wattage bulb will work. Just shouldn’t be too high Wattage else alternator Voltage maybe too high with no way to reduce it. Edit / appendix: I’ve thought about changing some lamps to LED’s before but always decided in the end that it’s too much faffing about, bulbs are easier
Mike H2013-12-16 15:00:56
Thank you Mike H!
As i read your reply, it might after all be possible to use a LED warning light “bulb”??
Or am I wrong.
I am quite puzzled - because you write “any small wattage bulb will work” - and LED certainly are very small wattage - so do you believe the Bosch would tolerate/Work with a LED warning light?
I have been using LEDs from Paul Goff on my other motorcycles, without problems - but never used LEDs for turn signals - just for rear & headlamps.
And never in systems with alternators - just in dynamo & flywheel magnet systems.
It seems to be a headache for quite a lot of bikers, to integrate LEDs in their turn signal systems.
You can find a lot of contradictory advice on the Internet - and its frankly not easy to determine whos correct…
Lasse, your English is excellent, but I realise it is not your first language, and I am concerned that occasionally there may be a bit of confusion in translation. The Bosch alternator uses a coil in the rotor to produce a magnetic field. At start up this is produced by a current passing through the charge warning light and then through the rotor. The normal bulb size in this application is 2.2 watt as this allows the correct current to pass through the rotor for the minimum magnetic field. Once the alternator is running, the rotor is powered direct from the rectifier, which is when the charge warning light goes out.All the other lights on the dash are normally 1.2 watt, and all these can be replaced by LEDs.If an LED is put in place of the charge warning light, virtually no current passes through it, and so the alternator will not produce any output, but in itself, this will do no harm to the alternator. When it comes to the turn signal indicators, the warning light on the dash can be changed to an LED with no problem. But the indicator relay is designed to have a specific load to work, that being two 10 or 21 watt bulbs, depending on what is specified. You will know that if one bulb breaks, the other flashes at twice the speed because the load is halved. This is designed to show you there is a fault. LEDs take almost no current, and thus the load is too low to make the flashers work correctly. So you either have to add a ballast resistor in parallel with the LEDs, or use a special flasher relay which is designed for use with LEDs.
Thank you so much, Brian, for this explanation!
When I finally get my new Electronic flasher unit (two pins - extra wire to ground) I can use the LED indicators - right?
BUT, as I understand now - I simply have to use the factory fitted, standard bulb for the charge warning light - right?
Soon, all my “Electric sorrows” will be over - partly thanks to certain members of the Moto Guzzi Club!
(By the way - two years ago, I drove all the way from Denmark to Mandello del Lario, for the 90 years Guzzi anniversary - riding mu 1959 Lodola “Sport” - a perfect trip, made with “home grown Electrics” - and maybe we meet, because I plan to go to the 100 years anniversary!)
Sorry to contradict Brian (again) but all my info says 1.2W for the charge light bulb This means 100 mA (milliamps) aka 0.1A (Amperes), this is obviously sufficient to get alternator going (else mine wouldn’t work) there is also some residual magnetism in the rotor. 2.2W is about 180 mA. As a reference, the rotor winding is 3.6 Ohms, drawing up to 4 Amps @ 14V, but the actual value depends on regulator ‘on/off’ timing.
Well all the bikes with the bosch alternator that I have seen have had 2.2 watt bulbs fitted. Same goes for all the car alternators, before computers took over.But if it works with the smaller bulb, what does it matter? Yes Lasse, you have to use the satndard factory fitted bulb in the charge warning light.
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A stupid question, maybe…
BUT, this V50 is the very first motorcycle I ever had, with an Electric selfstarter!
Problem: I installed a rebuilt/as new Lucas startmotor, with solenoid.
On the upper backside, it has a spade connecting terminal (not to see here) to connect to the starter relais & starter switch.
When I use the handlebars start switch, this relais clicks, and give power to the spade terminal OK.
On the back of the solenoid, you see a thick screw terminal, and also a slimmer screw terminal.
As I am afraid to “fry” something, I ask you Experts HOW to connect those two screw terminals!
BEFORE I do something stupid…
What I have on the bike now, to use?
A quite slim (red) wire, which I think is the “feed” from the alternator to the battery.
Then I have a very thick short (red) wire - which I believe must be the pos. feed to the starter motor.
But, as there are TWO empty terminals on the back of the solenoid - how, and with which wires, should I be supposed to connect this starter.
(I cannot believe one of those terminals should be empty?)lasse2013-12-18 16:32:56
It looks similar to the Bosch item (as it should!) Top one is battery ‘live’. Bottom one has a metal strap or something that goes into body of starter motor, this connects to a field winding I think. I.e. makes motor run. As you surmised spade terminal makes solenoid work (by relay) The spare post is obviously a separate function which I’m sure you don’t need ~ is it connected to either of the other two?
As I see it, the relais spade connector gives power to the solenoid, so this device make the plunger move the starter cog into mesh with the large motor-cog - and, at the same time, give full (battery) power to the starter motor!
The somewhat thinner threaded terminal puzzles me.
It must be there for a reason!
I hope “someone” with knowledge about the V50 can guide me, as I dont feel too comfortable in just leaving this terminal empty!
PS. the bottom metal strap, leads high amp power into the motor, to let it turn even a cold motor…
I guess the movement from the solenoid makes some sort of contact inside the solenoid - but, Again, what then is the “extra” terminal there for??lasse2013-12-18 20:43:30
I’ll have a look at mine in the morning.
Great!
I really apreciate your help, and do look forward to your reply.
(About the LED turn signals: I am still waiting for the Postman, to bring the Electronics two pin flasher unit…)