Well, mine is not the same. It does not have the threaded stud , but it does have a soldered connector there which is wired to the large bottom terminal (which connects to the motor).This will be the earth connection for the pull in coil in the solenoid. Are you able to test the electrical resistance between the spade terminal and that stud?
Thank you so lot!
Right now I am waiting for a Mail from Gutsibits, who sold the starter to me.
I hope they can clarify the wiring…
I tried the following: spade terminal to starter relay - battery + to the large threaded stud.
the thin terminal empty.
When trying to start, the following happened: Solenoid instantly got to Work - motor turning - BUT in very small steps, as the solenoid kept clicking to and fro very fast - it was just click-click-click-click…
No bad smells - no harm done.
Do you think, the thin threaded terminal could be ground for the solenoid??lasse2013-12-19 11:34:45
Latests news!
The tech dept. at “Gutsibits” just told me the following:
Spade terminal to relay/starter switch - thick terminal, battery + - and the thin terminal should be left redundant.
So, I have wired the starter motor correctly.
But, the solenoid moves from side to side very quickly, at about 8-10 movements per second - and the motor turns Little by Little in unison with those solenoid movements.
Could the reason be, I use a 12 volt - 85 Amp car battery for testing and wiring??
Is there too much power coming from this large battery???
starter and solenoid repair ^ Go down to 36. I agree with Brian it looks to be in the right place for the earthy end of the pull-in winding. The solenoid has two windings, the initiation (pull-in) winding and a ‘holding’ winding. On the old Bosch 0.7 hp jobbie the pull-in is about 0.2 Ohms or summat, looks like a virtual short on a meter. The holding winding is a couple of Ohms or so. Or a few anyway, but whatever, is noticeably larger resistance. Pull-in winding is thick wire, holding winding is thin wire. The solenoid also works like a relay. The two big studs on the back are connected together internally by a big lump of copper on the back of the solenoid plunger. So motor turns only when pinion has been fully engaged by the plunger. The pull-in winding is across these two studs, so gets its earth return through the motor, but then is shorted out when the stud contacts are closed, this leaves only the holding winding. Albeit of lower power, less power is needed to actually hold the solenoid plunger in position. The idea of this is to reduce the load on the battery (don’t need motor AND pull-in winding current simultaneously) Hope this makes sense
Mike H2013-12-19 13:59:32
Thank you, Mike!
Sorry, I did not competely understand all of your writings…
- Do you mean the battery mentioned is too powerful?
- Do you think its correct to leave the “thin” terminal on back of solenoid, redundant?
- have you any ideas around WHY the solenoid isnt “holding” to let the motor pull?
- Do you think this startermotor as a Whole needs MORE ground, than already supplied by the fastening of the motor to the engine?
Sorry I keep forgetting you are not English! I think small threaded stud needs to be connected to larger bottom stud. But can you measure: 1. electrical resistance between 6.3mm blade terminal and starter motor casing. 2. electrical resistance between 6.3mm blade terminal and small threaded stud. We want battery to be powerful!
Unfortunately, Im no electrical engineer - so cannot measure resistance…
The starter motor & solenoid are new!
To morrow, Ill try to run the device directly from the battery, because “Gutsibits” told me, the starter relay might be defunct in some way.
More later.
That “machine gun” sound is usually indicative of a poor battery. However, it could also be that the “hold in” winding is not working for some reason. I can’t see how the start relay could cause this.
Brian UK2013-12-19 22:42:41
Hosiannah - the thing is working now!!
Why?
Because I took it off the bike, and tried to drive it DIRECTLY from my car battery - it started very reluctantly. but began to turn with more and more speed.
Then I gave it some oil, and tried Again.
After some minutes, it ran with very good speed.
Back to the bike, installed it wired it up (spade terminal to start relay - the thick wire from batt.+ to the thick terminal on the starter - the thin one redundant) - now it started to turn slowly, but gathered speed ever so slowly - while in the end, it worked quite satisfactory!
This new starter motor has obviously been very “stiff” - but fortunately “loosened” up over a period of 5 minutes, to Work as it should.
I am ofcourse jubilant!
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We are nearing the end of the “project”…
Here you see my new manifold(s) - changing the carburetors away from under the seat - to let them sticking out in the cool air!
To morrow, I will install the exhausts system in its final position - and then this motorcycle, at least visually, will be completed, just as I planned it to look like - some months ago…
Soon, I will post a Picture, when the bike emerges from my garage, out in the open, to be properly photographed.
I hope that starters going to survive to be honest off the bike with no load they spin at a alarming rate and infact if you run them long they increase speed until the physically explode . no way should it be tight at all from new
Why are you writing this?
Didnt you understand what I wrote?
The thing WERE in fact “tight” - even if you try to tell me the opposite - I didnt see you around, by the way, so how could you know…
Anyway, I am very happy with my starter, now working, even if you try to tell me it soon will “explode”.
Lasse, the concern is that you said the starter motor started very reluctantly. It should spin freely immediately, so for some reason yours seems to be rather tight.
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Finally I became ready with the rebuild of my V50!
Now, (thanks to many of you folks)all the “Electrics” Works perfectly!
The bike started instantly to day - and charged, and showed good oil pressure (red warning lights went out, instantly)
If you rermember? the dull, light-blue bike I picked up the second of November, I hope you now like the difference, presented here!
For me, this motorcycle now is a kind of a “Gentlemans Café Racer” - or a true lightweight 500cc Moto Guzzi.
I have discarded the exhaust pipe between the two cylinders, and running open carburettors - therefore, I have installed 15% larger mainjets, and upped both needles one step - the spring will see if this is enough to keep the motor cool.
Also, I installed NGK “iridium” plugs, together with new copper cored ignition leads.
I was offering advice as a electrical engineer of many a year
the starter should as soon as the power is put to it run at a very fast speed it should not under any circumstances start slow and slowly speed up .
Sorry if it got mistook that I said it was going to explode, that was a general warning not to run them off load as they will increase speed until it throws itself to bits internally
glad to see that its working fine
Loving the bike! Any chance of some more pictures…
Removing the balance pipe between the exhausts will affect the performance, usually in a negative way. It’s there for a purpose. Starter motors are designed to run for very short periods only, a matter of a few seconds normally.
Yes, I will post more Pictures!
About the balancer pipe, hey, here is something I know a lot about…
Those balancer pipes are mainly there because of noise regulations - to subdue the exhaust note, and make it more “mellow”.
Its not just for fun, I shortened the exhausts, I did some calculations, regarding back-pressure & pulses, at around 4500 revs. where I would like the motor to have increased torque.
A balancer pipe on a 4 stroke motor, tends to give “back pressure” to the opposite cylinder (this principle used very much in 2 stroke motors in form of the socalled expansion Cans)- back pressure in a 4 stroke will give poorer gas-filling of the opposite cylinder - quell some noise, & most importantly, see to much better gas mileage - especially evident with the V50!
As I am not going to run any economy races, I doesnt care about how far the bike will go per litre of gasolene…
I am used to Racing twin cyl. two-strokes - rarely doing much more than 10 Kilometer per litre of gas…
So, I would be quite happy, if my V50 will cover around 20 kilometer per litre of 95 unleaded!
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Here is another Picture of my refurbished V50
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Even if its NOT a Guzzi - I thought some of you would like to see my NIMBUS 1947 “Special” which I built last Winter…