after getting a damn good soaking going to and returning from Festival of 1000 Bikes the bike stood for a few days in the garage. Now all I get is a click at the relay when I try to start it. Still fixed to the bike, I shorted the large terminals with a screw driver and it span but didnt engage. On the bench the solenoid flicks the gear forward but its not rotating - I guess it should be?
I do have 12 volts at the live spade into the solenoid and a good earth from the large terminal direct to the battery earth lug. After fitting it back on the bike - still nothing but the click. The gear is still spinning when I bridge the large terminals so solenoid works off but not on the bike. Baffled.com and had enough for tonight. any help would be most appreciatedKaliman2012-07-12 22:02:50
try putting a 2.5mm wire on battery live
Leave everything else connected up
put the temporary wire onto the spade connection on the starter (it will spark) and that should make it operate if the starter solinoid energises and it does not spin it is the solinoid contacts not alowing the power to get to the actual starter motor
sounds like the actual motor is ok as it spins when shorting out the large terminals
try shorting the big terminals while pressing the starter button
Ex smokingbiker2012-07-12 22:14:49
will give that a go! Whilst on the bench last night i did notice the copper braid - that connects the solenoid to the starter motor - is pretty badly frayed and ‘thin’ looking. Could this be stopping the power getting to the armature? Continuity test from braid to armature tonight? Maybe a duff brush?
Failing the above providing an answer, does anyone know of a tried and tested Bosch refurbisher in the crewe area?
More or less the same think as Ray suggested, but while on the bike, just shorting the two main terminals together will only rotate the starter without engaging. You need to short the top large terminal to the spade terminal to both engage the motor and spin it. If this doesn’t work, you have a sticky solenoid. They can be cleaned out.
not in the crewe area but i recondition them they come back with new bearings brushes solinoid contacts etc and painted as well
unless drastically burnt out it would be around £75 + postage
done around 10 for club members already
QUOTE=Kaliman]will give that a go! Whilst on the bench last night i did notice the copper braid - that connects the solenoid to the starter motor - is pretty badly frayed and ‘thin’ looking. Could this be stopping the power getting to the armature? Continuity test from braid to armature tonight? Maybe a duff brush? Failing the above providing an answer, does anyone know of a tried and tested Bosch refurbisher in the crewe area? [/QUOTE] Ex smokingbiker2012-07-13 16:45:22
If you fancy having a go at it yourself, there is a very good guide in Greg Benders siteStarter motor overhaul
thanks all for your suggestions - bridging the top large terminal to spade worked! so i guess we are now looking at a faulty ‘clicking’ relay? I have removed, cleaned and replaced the 4 connections to no avail.
Sounds to me as if you are not getting 12 volts to the spade connection on the solinoid to actually energise it as when you short the spade to top heavey post it works
there is on the bike a standard pin relay that puts the power down to the spade connection
have you tried the temp wire direct to battery from the spade if that then works you need to find the little actuation relay
(not the solinoid)
will try this tomorrow Ray. the relay thats clicking when i hit the start button is cubic and has 5 pins - four of which are used - and its under my side panel. Does the ‘click’ suggest its working correctly or otherwise?
te clicking means that the coil in it is working but it could have a faulty contact in it not allowing the power to the solinoid i would by the sound of it put money on either the relay contacts faulty or its got no power to the contact /switch in it
if you put a wire on the batterey positive and other end on the spade and it works that proves the relay is faulty
while you are at it if you have to replace the relay I would wire the new one direct to the battery via a fuse then it cuts a lot losses out on the italian wiring
so basically it would be battery - fuse - little relay contact (in) little relay contact (out) spade on solinoid
Try running a new power feed to the starter relay, either direct from the battery (preferably through a fuse) or take a lead from a spare way on the fuse box (this is what I did and it works for me). Like this:-The second red wire (towards the front) is a replacement feed wire to the solenoid spade connector
As in the Click, no Crank thread in FAQ. It still happens on the new range, will Guzzi ever learn?
I keep a sparestart relay on the bike it is one thing that can fail even with modded wiring, easy to replace get the highest rating they have …any car parts/Halfords have them, 30Amp plus
The old ‘plastic box’ relays can be cleaned, re-set and re-used as a temp fix.Newer, higher quality sealed ones are, as noted above, a lot better,Steve
Have to say a start relay 30A or above even with a fuse are not that expensive or large that it is not worth carrying a spare in all the miles and yrs I have had my old V1000 the only trailered home it has had has been punctures and the AA has only been called for a start relay …on a Sunday, miles from a Town No spare relay. So I now have a spare relay, but there is also one on the spotlights that is the same relay essentially that could be used, as it was last year on the way home from Wales after the V Twin when the start realy did not wanna know in Abagavenny, very easy swap saved shorting out the starter, I prefer not to do that unless absolutely needed.
Some yrs ago I had intermittent starting and it was the small braid that goes from the solenoid to the starter not even 1/2" but it had cracked causing the occasional difficult start, took me ages to find it
Wow that is good
Obviously the excess water has added corrosion to something, I note on that overhaul page the state of the big contacts the solenoid uses to activate the motor. BTW this doesn’t happen until the solenoid has pulled all the way back, so that the pinion is engaged first.
With the amount of electrical current needed for these sorts of things, the slightest resistance or loose connection, bit of oxidation means nowt happens.
As already hinted at, the acid test is to bridge the spade terminal for the solenoid to the large battery live contact (nut) beneath, with tip of screwdriver blade, if motor engages and turns engine starter is OK, so must be relay or wiring in that area.
Thin braid could be bad news yes, if too thin not enough current getting through (resistance).
If you do take it to bits, clean and grease all moving parts.
managed to find time to get a replacement 30A relay yesterday £2.99! and problem solved. the old relay actually has a very convenient hole about 1/16th" which probably let water in and knackered it. At least my starter got a good seeing to in the process and i will keep an eye on that thinning braid. flasher unit needed changing too. The rain was exceptional though, hitting the bike from below, front and both sides for a long time. thanks all
Super!
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So there ya go
Usual old Guzzi problem. Well worth following Mr Dunmores advice and carry a spare length of wire to get the bike started should it ever play up again. Just touch the battery +ve and the spade connector on the solenoid, it should spin over that way.