I will be getting the tank, mudguards and side panels painted on my Le Mans 1 soon. Do I assume correctly that originally the black paint on the top and bottom of the tank was satin as opposed to gloss?
ReggieV2012-10-07 22:03:50
As far as I am aware they are Gloss Black
I would go for satin
Definitely satin!
When I did my £75 Le Mans in 1990 Spares GB sourced a new tank from Italy for me but it needed painting and I did a bit of asking around the various dealers etc., and all , well those that could remember said satin, also I still have a Superbike magazine from 1978 with a road test and coloured pictures and the black is satin. I’ll try and find a pic of the tank painted. If I can remember correctly, and I’m happy to be corrected on this, that every piece of black , apart from the frame on the Mk1 was a satin finish.
Bike in 1991
I hope your bike was in better condition than when I got my burned out wreck, I beleive it was the usual spitback through the carbs when it was only months old. It had languished, (what was left of it!!!), in someone’s drive way since the insurance payout in 1978
rbt15482012-10-08 08:16:13
Thanks for the replies, I think I’ll go with satin then. I have contacted my painter this morning and he says that with satin, where the laquer on the red will finish and joins the black that there will be a slight lip! Oh well, you can’t have everything! Robert, your Le Mans was in much worse condition than mine, but believe me, mine was pretty worn out and knackered. The picture flatters the machine.
Interesting, not sure about early LM’s but I would have called it matt black on Spadas anyway.
A somewhat bizarre combination right next door to a metallic area with lacquer.
Satin would be an improvement.
Mike H2012-10-08 13:09:45
Not impressive by Roberts standards but:
ReggieV2012-10-08 13:25:40
Good scrub up and paint use satin on the cylinders MUCH better finish than matt black and lasts well too.
Get the Frosts marine clean and metal ready on it once you have gunked it then a good wash then use the Frosts stuff then paint with Halfords hi temp satin black they come up great
On the Spada the satin black is actually applied over the colour and lacquer.The tank was obviously painted in the silver and lacquered and the black was applied on top over both. Hence if you polish the black too much you can wear it away.This was the way it came out of the factory and the LeMans would be the same.
Don-Spada2012-10-08 21:26:04
Thanks for that info Don. Not only does it make sense but it is “the” solution to not having a small ridge where the laquer meets the black. I’ll pass this on to the painter and see what he says.
Hi Reggie, the “ridge” the painter is talking about is ALWAYS there when 2 colours/ finishes meet, it can’t be helped.
However!!! it is very, very slight, and you don’t normally feel it if the 2 colours have been laquered with the same laquer, gloss/matt/satin, because when the laquer is applied and then hardened it is rubbed down and usually levels out.
With a difference in laquers, matt to gloss or gloss to satin etc., you will get a slight lip, but it should only be the thickness of the masking tape if even that because if the painter is good he will spray away from the tape join and that should leave a feathered edge rather than a thick,(ish), edge when sprayed into the tape edge.
The modern masking tapes used on vehicles are very thin so the step will hardly be felt.
I make model cars, usually 1/24 or 1/20 scale, some with quite complex spray jobs and with a combination of a good airbrush, thin tape, (sometimes even Bare-metal-foil), any good model shop will have it, and a number of coats of laquer even at that scale once it’s rubbed down the ‘ridge’ is almost indiscernable, in the pic below the join between the red and silver can’t be felt to the touch, ok both are gloss but even with 2 different tones a good painter will get it nearly smooth.
rbt1548 wrote;" if the 2 colours have been laquered with the same laquer, gloss/matt/satin, because when the laquer is applied and then hardened it is rubbed down and usually levels out. With a difference in laquers, matt to gloss or gloss to satin etc., you will get a slight lip, but it should only be the thickness of the masking tape " I’m starting to get confused here! When I spoke to the chap who I will probably elect for the paint job, he said that he was painting a MV or Benneli (or similar) and that this customer had specified the original satin or mat finish on a two colour tank and that there would be a slight ridge. Robert, are you saying that there are satin laquers that can be applied next to gloss laquer and that in my case, the black paint will still look “satin” despite being laquered? Or have I misunderstood?
ReggieV2012-10-10 10:50:47
If you apply a gloss laquer to both satin and gloss paint the ridge between can be removed by sanding between layers, but the satin paint will become gloss due to the gloss laquer. Equally if you use a satin laquer the whole would become satin.
If you want satin black, accept the (very small) change of level between the two colours, if you would accept gloss black you could have a perferctly smooth tank, the choice is yours.
Reggie, sorry didn’t mean to confuse the issue, apologies!!!
Your black paint at the top and bottom of the tank will still be satin as long as he uses satin laquer on these areas.
Try it this way;
What the painter will most probably do is paint your tank the colours you wish, say red with a black top and bottom, this way.
He will prime the tank with primer.
He will then lay the basecoats, the red probably first as it’s the lighter colour and then mask off the red leaving the unmasked area to be painted black , which will be the top and bottom of the tank.
He MAY then Gloss laquer the whole thing, this will help to take away the demarcation line between the red and the black.
Once this is dry he will probably mask of the red portion, leaving only the black showing and then satin laquer it, then take the masks off and polish it.
Once he has finished it will be a nice gloss red on the middle portion with your satin black on the top and bottom of the tank.
Any finish of laquer can be used next to another one, gloss next to satin or satin next to matt etc.
Don’t get fazed by the “lip” as any good painter will get it minuscule probably not much more that a hairs thickness that you may just feel the line when you run your finger over it.
Chris and Robert, thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand now
If you want true originality then the black should be on top unlacquered But it will wear away in time if you keep polishing it.
Yes I know. I’ll see what the painter says and decide from there. Thanks for the info.
Some good replys above… This is what I found when I repainted my le mans.
Moto guzzi completely painted the tank in matt black first and then layed in the red panels afterwards in gloss.Red is transparent so a light coat of white first helps. I noticed this on my own and after taking a look at an new ‘old stock’ tank that was for sale on ebay some time ago.
If you notice at the front of the tank in my photo the leading edge is black as are the frame mounting lugs. Its easy to mask up the red panel using 3mm fineline tape… The line at the bottom of the tank runs dead straight over the ridge and doesnt follow the natural line of the tank as I have seen on some repaints.
I choose to finish mine in gloss as its easier to keep(and polish)…But if originality is what you’re after go with the matt black. Your painter could paint the tank completely and lacquer it(as mine) Then re mask the red area and using a ‘matting agent’ in the clear coat apply a couple of light coats over the black. This works really well and the ‘step’ in the two colours is minimal.
Motivlack, thank you for that info. I had noticed (on pictures from the 1970’s)that the tanks originally had black leading edges, and logically that would suggest that the black was put on first as you say. I’m not obsessed about having it original, but it’s nice to know what is original and go from that point.
p.s. Your tank and side panels look very smartReggieV2012-10-12 22:13:39
I see your frame has the origional one coat finish that used to corrode away !!!
dont be too origional with that !!!
it used to fall off in winter