Stelvio clutch for the Mandello?

Technical V 100
1

I’m sorry this is so long! I’ll try to edit it down. Thank you if you manage to read to the end.

This is related to the thread entitled “Clutch/gearbox adjustment V100” but I want to take it in a different direction so I feel justified in creating a new thread.

I have a new V100S, and have one negative observation: the clutch drag is terrible! The most obvious symptom is the horrendous bang and jerk when selecting 1st gear from standstill. Of course almost all bikes with multi-plate wet clutches do that to some extent, but in my 51 years of motorcycle ownership the Mandello is by far the worst. The other symptom is the extreme stiffness when going down the gears at very low speeds - say less than 15mph. 4th to 3rd is pretty stiff, but 3rd to 2nd is sometimes so stiff I’m genuinely afraid I might break something because of the pressure required on the lever.

Getting into neutral from 2nd when stationary is similarly difficult. Mine has the quickshifter; when pressing down for neutral, the spring-loaded switch in the link rod compresses, and as soon as the gearbox moves out of 2nd gear, the pressure comes off the link rod, which then expands and pushes it straight through into 1st. MG obviously found this themselves because they fitted a device in the gearbox which prevents it from selecting 2nd gear when stationary. If it wasn’t for that you’d be shifting back and forth between 1st and 2nd with no chance of finding neutral.

Now, before my idea/question: yes, I know the clutch and gearbox are supposed to free up as the miles go on. Yes, I know some bikes seem worse than others; and yes, I have the clutch lever set for maximum span. The clutch drags even when the lever is hard against the handlebar.

I’ve recently seen a video review of the V100 Stelvio, and it uses the identical engine except for one component: the clutch.*

MG say the clutch has been completely re-engineered to improve the overall feel and behaviour when changing gear. It is a slip-assist clutch, and interestingly, it now has a cush drive built in. This suggests that MG are concerned about the violence of the engagement and have included the cush drive to mitigate it.

The fact that the Stelvio has this new clutch suggests to me that they know the Mandello clutch is problematical. If I’m right, I’m willing to bet that the Stelvio clutch will appear in the Mandello when it comes to the first model refresh. We’ll see. I’ve looked at the parts diagrams for both engines, and it appears that the Stelvio clutch could indeed be fitted in the Mandello with no changes apart from one or two spacers adjacent to the clutch.

After that lengthy introduction, my question: how can I explore this further? Will the Stelvio clutch, in fact, fit the Mandello, or am I wrong about that? Has anyone else thought about this or explored it? How can I ask MG about retrofitting the Stelvio clutch in my Mandello?

The agricultural behaviour of the clutch and transmission takes the edge off the bike, in my opinion, and seems out of place for a premium, £17,000 motorcycle. I wish it had a gearchange as slick as pretty much every Japanese bike has had for years.

Thoughts? Comments? All welcome, including violent disagreement! :grinning:

(* Apparently they have also strengthened the engine casing to handle the stresses of off-road use, and I also believe they might have modified the gears themselves.)

2

I read a recent review of the Stelvio which said that the 2024 iteration of the V100 would have the revised clutch. Not sure where the tester got that info but thats what was said. Howver as ive said elsewhere i dont actually find my clutch bad at all as it is. Strange.

1 Like
3

Interesting, thanks. On Guzzitech, Scott said the same thing as you, but then changed his mind when he experimented with the bike on the centrestand and found that pulling the clutch in did not disengage the clutch - it required the back wheel to be held stationary to force the plates to slip and separate.

I think one factor is what you are used to, and how you ride. For instance, I’ve found that if you change down through the box at higher speeds - maybe 25mph+ - it all works much better. Also, some people (like me) seem more bothered by the bang and shunt than others.

1 Like
4

Is the clutch cable or hydraulic connected?

1 Like
5

Its hydraulic.

1 Like
6

Yeah, so the only adjustment as such is the lever span. Altering that doesn’t seem to help.

I’m wondering how to ask Moto Guzzi about this and actually get an answer. It’s about knowing the right contact point, I suppose. If the clutch can be swapped out I would definitely give it a go. Obviously the sensible thing would be to get a ride on the Stelvio and see how it behaves before spending lots of money.

7

Didn’t Speedy 123 have a clutch issue with his V100? Something to do with Loctite. Not sure of the details.

1 Like
8

Thanks, I’ll search that out - could be helpful.

To be honest, I think the fact that MG have just re-engineered the clutch is a pretty sure sign that they think it’s deficient.

9

Hydraulic clutch - could be air in the line - Could have got bubbles in on assembly or a small leak on a slightly loose fitting. My old stelvio had a raher nice bleed line under the seat. Saved you having to try band reach a bleed nipple at the back of the engine. Made bleeding a ten minute job. Not sure if the new one has this . Either way it would be worth trying before replacing the clutch.

1 Like
10

Thank you, John. I will seriously consider doing this, or perhaps asking the dealer at the forthcoming service. Enough people have commented in a similar way that I still think there is something systematic going on.

11

This was a perennial problem on an Aprilia Caponord that I had.

Regular bleeding required. Many owners fitted aftermarket replacement cylinders to cure the dragging clutch.

Haven’t seen the V100 setup, but being Piaggio I wouldn’t be surprised.

First step is obviously to see if bleeding reduces the drag. You can cheat and vacuum bleed if you have the kit.

1 Like
12

@SteveThackery

Came across this thread. Clutch Lever Too Hard | GuzziTech Forums

You are not alone. :imp:

1 Like
13

and this is quite useful - clutch section with pictures

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj_tuzUy4OFAxUZW0EAHSO_BJoQFnoECDYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fguzzitek.org%2Fatelier%2Fgb%2F1000%2FV100-Mandello_022023_Atelier(GB).pdf&usg=AOvVaw2rvzv3Ezb1fQUThk50OJur&opi=89978449

1 Like
14

There’s an interesting mistake in message #2 which nobody picked up: you need a smaller diameter master cylinder, not a larger one, to reduce the lever force required. The downside is less travel from the slave cylinder.

15

Thanks. I’ve compared the exploded diagrams of both engines, and it does look like the Stelvio clutch will drop right in. There are one or two parts which I can’t tell if they are part of the clutch assembly or not, but in any case they should be easy to swap.

16

The Aprilia fix was to replace the slave, not the master; hence the larger diameter. Easier on the Aprilia as the V-twin is along the frame with the slave cylinder on the side just above the footpeg.

Clearly with the Guzzi transverse V it is a rear wheel out job. (Unless you have unusually long, thin and strong fingers).

What I don’t know is if there is an alternative or aftermarket slave to fit. Cali 1400?

1 Like
17

This thread is about a different issue, though - not excessive lever force.

I think anything that would reduce the clutch travel would make the drag worse, not better.

18

True, but it is a matter of percentages. Overdo it and the slave piston doesn’t budge enough. However, a small increase in piston size proved enough of a cure on the Aprilia. (Rotax V990).

No dispute that a larger master cylinder shifts more volume of fluid. Just more of a faff to swap, and as you say, heavier on the wrist.

1 Like
19

AHA! Being old-school I hadn’t realised quite how different the V100 is to its ancestors. Forgive my ignorance.

Looking at these manuals may be useful

Clutch is a doddle compared to previous pushrod operated ones.

1 Like