Stelvio clutch for the Mandello?

The clutch on my 2023 MandelloS was actually better than the clutch on my 2024 Stelvio. The Mandello did jump a little going into first but nothing like the crash going into first on the Stelvio. I’ve rebled the clutch a couple of times on the Stelvio and it is a little better. I’ve found it much better to give it a firm prod rather than be gentle with it.

That’s very interesting - thank you.

At the moment I’ve got two other bikes: a Royal Enfield Meteor 350 and a Honda VTR1000F. Neither suffer the extraordinary amount of clutch drag that blights the Mandello. I cannot understand why it has to be like this.

Hi, I have just got (last week) a new 2024 V100 Mandello with full manual (no quickshifter) and whilst I too experience the same jump going to 1st from N the rest of the time this is one of the sweetest shifting gearboxes on a bike I’ve ever used. Also interesting is that a friend of mine with the V100S says that he doesn’t use the quick shifter as the gearbox is far smoother and nicer to use without it. I’ve only got a few hundred miles on the clock so expecting it to improve further once run in.

One final thought on the jump in to 1st from N - could this be related in anyway to the higher than most other bikes idling RPM? Handbook says 1500RMP at idle which is the highest, by some margin, of any bike (or car for that matter) I’ve owned over the last 35 years. Just a thought as to whether this additional engine speed / inertia makes it worse.

Thanks for those observations, @paulc911.

You’ve triggered a few thoughts. My bike has the quickshifter, and I’m of the view that it isn’t particularly well implemented. Some quickshifts are pretty smooth, but too many cause an uncomfortable jerk. The downshifts are worse. I find myself using it less and less.

The gear linkage rod on quickshifter bikes is springy (so it can detect when you are pushing for a quick shift). However, the big shortcoming of that is the tendency for the gears to run through when you don’t want that.

Take, for example, going from 2nd to neutral as you come to a halt. Quite often this seems very stiff and requires a lot of force on the linkage, which compresses its internal spring. And then, when 2nd gear lets go the pressure comes off the linkage, which expands in length and pushes the box straight through neutral and into 1st gear. Quite infuriating.

I’m going to order the non-quickshift version of the linkage, which is solid, and I expect it might greatly improve the feel and precision of the gear change.

About the crunchy gear changes: I’ve noticed that my body is learning how to do smoother, quieter gear changes, without the usual ‘BANG’ every time. It’s hard to describe, but I seem to pull the clutch smoothly in, but not all the way. The gear lever is operated and the clutch lever is smoothly released. The precise action seems important: instead of clutch in, change the gear, clutch out, it’s like a continuous motion. The clutch lever is smoothly pulled in about half way and then in a continuous motion is smoothly released again. It’s like the clutch lever never stops moving. Meanwhile, when the clutch lever is at the point of returning, I match the engine revs to the new gear and operate the gear change lever, which often engages almost silently.

It’s as if the clutch drag from the deliberately not fully operated clutch forces the gearbox internals to follow the engine speed, thus matching the revs for the new gear so it crunches far less.

I can’t do it all the time, but I seem to be getting better. Even so, when I went out on my Meteor yesterday I was knocked out by the stunningly good gear change; no fancy techniques required.

Yes I think so. I really dislike that ridiculously high idle speed, and I find myself wishing for ways to reduce it.

I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this before or not but on pretty much every bike I’ve ridden the smoothest changes on the way up are clutch less. I’ve never owned a bike with a quick shifter so this is just old fashioned clutch avoidance.

I think you have hit the nail on the head (clearly as @Dukesox says you can use clutchless changes on the way up on a sequential box and that often works well) re the use of the clutch - I have certainly found that just a little clutch 1/3 - 1/2 half lever pull and a very swiftly timed: In-Change-Out operation all in one seamless motion up or down delivers almost imperceptible changes. Certainly whilst I’m running in the engine and gearbox I’ll be using this method for up changes too and may well go back to clutchless after the first service. The clutch action is so smooth and light on this bike it is very easy to do, which makes the quick shifter redundant.

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I test-rode both a Mandello & Stelvio today. The lurch into 1st gear was as bad on both bikes and the Stelvio was certainly no better than the Mandello. On the road, the Mandello clutch did feel more draggy than the Stelvio. The Dealer advised that the 1st gear lurch lessens as the mileage increases.

Mandello now up to 300 miles and already the gearbox action throughout the range up and down is improving and the jump from neutral to 1st - it’s also noticeably better when all the fluids are properly up to temp.

Thanks, @BikerBob. Mine’s got 1800 miles on it, I think, and the gear change and 1st gear lurch are unchanged, as far as I can tell. Interesting…

There is something very weird about mine. From a cold start, the very first engagement of 1st gear is LESS violent. Subsequent 1st gear engagements are noisier and more jerky. In fact, I suspect the clutch drag gets worse the hotter the engine, which suggests the friction material is expanding with temperature and causing the drag (rather than viscous drag from the oil).

I’m really pleased to read everyone’s different experiences; it might help us home in on the problem.

That is definitely odd and highly unusual @SteveThackery - I’m not sure we can reliably say mine is not going to develop in to the same situation as the bike is only 1 week old, ridden three times and nowhere near run in yet. I’ll be keeping an eye on the behaviour as the mileage increases to see how things change to use and heat cycles etc.

I’m not sure we can say it’s highly unusual - we’ve got hardly any data points to work with. I think we can say highly strange, though. :smile:

My mechanical instincts say the drag should get less as the engine warms up, because I’m assuming the drag is due to viscous coupling between the plates. Obviously the viscosity, and thus the coupling, gets less at high temperatures.

However, if the drag is actually due to mechanical friction between the plates then it is feasible, at least, that it might get worse as the plates expand with temperature.

I’ve noticed another small oddity. With the bike switched off, when I operate and release the clutch lever, I can hear some clacking sounds from the clutch itself. In fact I can feel some unevenness in the force on the clutch lever.

Does anyone else hear the clacking from the clutch when operating it with the bike switched off? And can you feel a slight unevenness of the force on the lever?

No and no.

my breva 750 does the same on the sidestand, you have to foot the brake pedal to stop the wheel spinning
there must be a degree of friction even with the plates separated
in fact my old BMW did the same
the clunking noises are likely caused by the diaphragm flexing

Have a collection of Guzzies and put a deposit in the v100 then tested one at my local dealer. On return I said I couldn’t get in with the clutch n gearbox so cancelled the order, the sales guy said @ your the only one who has said that” we sold a load. Pity lovely bike but if Suzuki can get it right every time then Guzzi should too😳

That’s very interesting - clearly the behaviour of the clutch and gearbox is a real issue for some people - yourself, me, and other people on this list. For others, it’s not even noticeable.

From looking at various road tests online, it seems that most riders are relatively uninterested in the powertrain of their bikes, except for:

1/ How well does it go?

2/ Does it vibrate too much?

And a few also add:

3/ Is it loud enough?

For me it’s very different:

1/ I want a slow idle.

2/ The feel of the gearchange lever is very important. I want it to be light and friction-free, but still letting me feel the gears engage.

3/ I want a relatively heavy flywheel.

4/ The exhaust note must have a “throb” (so no 360-degree parallel twins, no triples, no straight fours, no boxer twins).

5/ The exhaust note should have rich harmonics giving a complex and pleasing sound.

6/ I want shed-loads of torque at the bottom end and great low-to-mid-range acceleration.

7/ I want a low-revving engine (max power at no more than 7000rpm).

8/ I want perfect fuelling, especially at very small throttle openings.

9/ I want the engine to be mechanically silent.

10/ I want the clutch to be light, drag-free, and to engage smoothly.

Of course, very few, if any, bikes tick all those boxes, and that’s just my list for the powertrain! :smile:. But it illustrates how some people (but probably a minority) are much more concerned about the “character” of the engine and transmission than others.

To me the clunky, draggy behaviour of the V100 gearchange is a big deal; to others it seems to be unnoticeable and insignificant.

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Have to agree, all my Guzzies clonck and have gearboxes that are not Suzuki but this often doesn’t seem to matter. I noticed the linkage n ball joints are small and all have play. Was thinking of replacing them with those on the Honda NT650 a bike I would never consider but now ride on a regular basis. Certain engineering features you notice and build quality superb cost £1000, would I ride it to Malta tomorrow yes have faith :flushed:

Often thought a variable flywheel would be great my Falcone has an 8 kilo flywheel and did tick over at 150 rpm. Interestingly my old Clio ticks over at 500 rpm I can’t hear it running now to many rock concerts :flushed:

IMO a good reason never to buy a new vehicle as whatever a factory may say I am certain that there is the potential for each individual car or bike to be significantly different to the next off the line.
Buy secondhand and test the exact one you are looking to buy.