Can anyone advise the correct settings for the TPS on a late-model (2005) V11 Lemans fitted with the 15RC ECU ? Even the updated manuals I can get hold of don’t cover this ECU. I have found conflicting recommendations for the voltage at idle but my bike runs like a pig with any of them (far too high revs) and goes better with much lower settings. So I set it at 150mv with everything backed off, connecting rod disconnected etc., which gives 4.8v at full throttle. This is the recommended base setting (or am I wrong about that?) but even then although it idles nicely it still runs poorly at low revs through town, surging and hiccuping and has difficulty maintaining a steady engine speed. I know these bikes are set to run lean due to emissions and it only happens in the closed loop rev range, but it’s starting to get annoying and I want to get it sorted. Throttle bodies are balanced within a gnat’s chuff of each other.A fatduc made it better for a few miles until the engine warmed up but then just makes it worse (before anyone suggests that) even at the lowest setting. At higher settings it’s awful.I have the VDSTS software and that confirms the fully closed and fully open voltages mentioned above are ok and everything else like injectors etc. is tickety-boo.Is a reflash or new ECU the only answer? I recall reading somewhere that these bikes had a faulty ECU from new and the factory changed them under warranty. I don’t know if that’s true, and if it is, if my bike had it done (I’m the 2nd owner).Any advice from anyone who’s been through the same issue would be much appreciated.thanks
Have you tried asking on the V11lemans Forum?The setup procedure posted on there makes no mention of any special requirements for models from 1999-2006 other than the 150mV base and 521mV idle settings.http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?s=414601f1c702ec027c6646f2b6c634a0&showtopic=12204AFAIK the troublesome ECU was fitted to the 2003 models.Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs etc., but if your base TPS setup, idle TPS setting, (very important that one), and TB balance/sych is correct then maybe a duff lambda sensor or the engine temp sensor? The latter can be checked for resistance as per the manual and the holder filled with a heat conducting paste/grease for better readings.If it comes down to a duff ECU then maybe a Cliff Jefferies My15M would be a better, (and cheaper), option than a factory replacement.Sorry can’t help more.
guzzijack2012-07-26 14:02:42
Does sound more like could be a sensor fault.
I could be wrong but would have thought the lean-running aspect only comes into play for ‘cruising’ or constant speed, i.e. not when you need it for accelerating and suchlike.
Check v/v settings and set to Raceco - does help idle and round town stuff. Is there “slack” in the timing chain? Pop a strobe on the timing marks and see if there are any changes at low throttle.
My V11 le mans 2002 has a tendency to fart , sounds like it is in the x over at low revs 30 mph ish now and again, some FI cleaner through it made a huge difference BUT I do think I may pop to local dealer to get it set up. I do know other V11’s have had a similar thing ALL got sorted with a dealer service set up.
Make sure when you set the tps that the fast idle cam is not touching at all by loosening the screw circled in red. I had set my tps set without loosening this screw, I had disconnected the fast idle at the cable when setting and it coughed at 2500rpm as the tps was way out.Ignore the rest of the labeling which is for adapting fast idle to left hand throttle ( pic borrowed from v11 forum).
Another thing you could try is setting the tps to 300mv instead of 150mv with everything backed off, this is how I found the tps setup on a friends bike by a known guzzi/FI guru. Then set the tps to 520mv with the idle stop screw (the little hex screw) This will give an idle of around 1100 rpm finely tuned and balanced by the air bleed screws approx 1 turn from fully closed.
My wife’s breva has a 15rc ecu and is set up the same as my v11 with 15m.
HaydnR2012-07-26 20:19:07
Thanks for all the responses. Rather than quote each poster, I’ll address the points raised one by one.Valves are already set to Raceco specs - 0.2mm inlet and 0.25 exhaust. I’ve rechecked twice over the last 1,000 miles or so and they are staying set alright. I fitted a new O2 sensor a few months back. Engine has done around 18k miles, so doubt it’s the cam chain getting slack. I have a set of Joe Carruso’s steel gears stashed for the T3 rebuild, but doubt it’s worth fitting them to the Nero. Not yet, anyway, as I’ll probably be selling it once the T3 is finished.The fast idle cam was disconnected when setting the TPS so it’s not that.I’ve read just about everything related on v11.com ( I’m a member there) and guzzitech.com (I even e-mailed Todd about the settings for the TPS but he wasn’t sure).It goes like stink when the throttle is opened up, so I’m sure everything like sensors are OK. It’s the inability to keep a steady, smooth, even speed at low revs that’s bugging me. I know it CAN do it. I think the TPS setting is where i need to look again. The available TPS figures I can find relate to the Cal Vin and V7s, which also have the 15RC but I’m sure they have different maps (must do - totally different engine performances) so the TPS settings for those are not right, I don’t think, for the V11. That’s what I’m trying to find.A fatduc made it go beautifully for about 5 miles, then it was back to normal, Those damned ECUs seem to have an intelligence and ‘learn’, so you’re always chasing your tail trying to fool them.Haydn, you’re probably closest to nailing the problem with setting the TPS base figure to 300mv or thereabouts. One poster on guzzitech.com insists that you should ignore the 150mv setting and focus on the idle setting. But that’s with the 5M ECU.The best I can find is recommended 3.1 degrees at idle (= 470mv) but the bike won’t tick over at that and is set much lower just now. I’ll try again at the weekend and let you know.Thanks all for your input.
Two not so obvious things I would check, if you have not done already: 1/ Is your battery charging ok? If the voltage is low then the ECU does not function properly and makes the bike run poorly at low revs. 2/ Any cracks in the inlet rubbers on the throttle bodies? Again these can cause poor running at low revs. Cheers Guy
Is the 470mv giving a fast idle?
Yes. Up around 2k+.Guy,Thanks for the tip regarding the battery. I’ll check that before altering anything else. It’s still the original one. The bike had been running well but started getting poor a while back, so that may well be the reason. Good thinking, that man!Inlet rubbers (ooh, missus !!) are good and the connections are tight. I doubt it’s those.
Another option could be that the 15rc ecu has a tps reset function which is all that is used on later model Guzzi such as the v7,as they do not have a manually adjustable tps (which then made the idle stops known as ‘the sacred screw’) So in theory you could have manually set the tps to one value but the ecu is reading it as something else.
What I would do is reset the tps manually to 150mv (= 0’) everything backed off. Set idle screw to read 525mv on volt meter not vdst, this should give the correct opening of 3.6’ then connect the vdst and run through the tps reset procedure via the ecu/vdst only. This should synchronize the manually set tps to the electronically set tps (or I could be talking pish)HaydnR2012-07-27 03:10:14
PossiblyI have just ordered a battery from Gutsibits as the old one is 8 years old and a bit tired.I’ll fit that first before messing around with anything, as it was going as sweet as a nut, so something has changed and I’m reluctant to mess about with it if I have got it all set up right and it’s a dying battery that’s the problem. If the new battery doesn’t sort it, I will try what you suggest. Thanks all.
The Ducati reg / rectifiers on V11s are very prone to failing so will be worth putting a multimeter on the battery with the engine revving, just in case this has fried the old battery. Should be about 14ish volts, if its about 17 volts then your reg / rect is toast. Don’t want you to fry your new battery too, so worth checking.
Does the voltage on the TPS rise steadily with throttle opening? A dirty track at the bottom end would certainly prevent a steady speed. Best checked with an analogue voltmeter.
Good suggestion by Brian - and an analogue meter’s needle will easily show any dip in the voltage.The reason for the 150mV base TPS setting with all linkages/cables disconnected and the butterfly fully closed is purely to establish a common reference point from which to work to the idle setting and thereafter to reference the mapping from. The first EFI Guzzi was the Daytona and the original fuel injection handbook proposed that the body of the TPS was loosened from the TB and merely turned and then released against it’s internal spring pressure on the closed butterfly to set the ‘zero’ point! Apart from manufacturing tolerances between individual units it didn’t take into account of how far +/- from ‘zero’ it might end up - some might even be set below ‘zero’ once the locating screws were nipped up.
I think I have found the correct settings for the 15RC ECU as fitted to the late V11s. FYI, the earlier non-cat TPS should be 532mV (+ or - 15mV) which equals 3.6 degrees (+ or _ 0.2 degrees) with tickover at 1050rpm.For the cat bikes (like mine) TPS should be 553mV (+ or - 15mV) which equals 3.8 degrees (+ or _ 0.2 degrees) with tickover at 1100rpm.Base setting with everything backed off etc 150mV as normal. Note that these are not the official MG figures, but (if my rubbish French is close) compiled from many users and fuel injection specialists. Got to be worth a go.Seems mine is waaayyy out … hence the poor running. I haven’t tried these settings yet, so I don’t know if it will cure the problem but maybe later today I’ll have a go.Thanks to Mandello Garage www.mandello.fr for the info. Their website is under construction, but the home page shows a really rather tasty V11 cafe’d. Thanks to all who gave help and advice.
KenH2012-08-01 12:44:39
150mv 0’ tps base setting and 3.6 and 3.8 degrees are the official mg figures so nothing new there.
3.1 3.6 3.8 ’ will only affect the tickover, throttle fully closed, at other throttle positions it is irrelevant
The base/reference setting will affect how the bike fuels throughout the full throttle range.
Setting the tps base figure to 300mv is a trick to make the bike fuel a little richer to smooth out the 2.5k rpm cough.
The fact that 470mv/3.1’ is giving you a 2000rpm idle there is something not right elsewhere. If you want someone else to scratch their head I don’t mind a run out to the borders.HaydnR2012-08-01 17:24:04
Thanks Haydn, but no need. The advanced diagnostic programme has found the fault, a simple Code 18.Memo to self - read the bloody instructions !All sorted now.
And ‘18’ is ???
Curious of Corringham
Computer techie jargon. As in, the fault is 18 inches from the computer, i.e. the user.