The idle speed on my V100S Mandello is - according to the tacho - around 1600rpm. The handbook says it should be 1400 +/- 100rpm, so technically it’s only about 100rpm fast, but it’s really getting on my nerves.
Sitting in a traffic queue with the engine racing is irksome and annoying. Also, it varies slightly, erratically moving between 1500 and 1600rpm.
The idle speed cannot be adjusted, apparently, it being a parameter hard-coded into the ECU. However, I have noticed that even the tiniest movement of the throttle twistgrip increases the engine speed, which makes me wonder if the ECU “thinks” I am holding the throttle slightly open.
The handbook makes no mention of making the ECU re-learn the throttle closed position, but I’ve heard of a procedure used on other bikes as follows:
1/ Start the engine from cold, but do NOT touch the throttle at all.
2/ Let the engine run until it has reached normal running temperature and the fan has kicked in at least twice.
3/ Stop the engine using the kill switch.
4/ Wait 30s, then switch off the ignition switch.
5/ Start and run the engine as usual.
Anyway, it didn’t make a blind bit of difference.
Is anyone else experiencing the same thing? Any solutions?
It is. I am 99% certain I’ll get the standard “They are all like this” answer.
The official service manual makes no mention of the idle speed (except to say what it should be), and I’m sure the dealer has no more knowledge of the bike than what is in the service manual.
However, I might still end up trying the dealer if I don’t get anywhere myself.
One reason for my question is to find out if it is, indeed, normal behaviour for these bikes.
Indeed I am certain I’m not holding it open - in fact I usually take my hands off the bars when stationary.
The TPS is obviously the twistgrip itself, it being a ride-by-wire throttle. I’m tempted to take a look inside it to see if the internal stop is adjustable.
The throttle position sensor is usually connected to the throttle body of the injector system (think carburettor ) rather than the twist grip. It’s basically the thing that the twist grip connects to which tells the ECU how far you’ve twisted the throttle. The dealer will have to connect it to the PADS diagnostic system to properly adjust it.
Actually I do know what a TPS is and where it is normally found, but the V100 uses a fly-by-wire throttle. That means there is no connection between the twistgrip and the throttle butterfly. The twistgrip doesn’t “connect to” anything mechanically - it just sends an electrical signal to the ECU saying how far the rider has rotated it.
The throttle butterfly is solely controlled by the ECU itself, not the twistgrip, so the ECU obviously already knows the position of the throttle butterfly because it is in charge of positioning it.
The equivalent of a “throttle position sensor” in a fly-by-wire system is the “twistgrip position sensor”, which is built in to the twistgrip itself and is how the ECU knows how far you have twisted it.
It seems just possible (but highly unlikely) that the twistgrip is sitting a little way off the “zero rotation” position, hence the ECU thinking I’m asking for more revs.
@Samurai, do you have a V100 yourself? If so, could you say what the idle speed is on yours?
Many thanks for contributing to this discussion - I appreciate it very much. .
PS: As you say, on a non-FBW system the twist grip is connected to the throttle butterfly via a cable, and the throttle butterfly has a position sensor on it - the TPS - which tells the ECU how far the user has opened the throttle. The ECU uses that as one of the inputs to the algorithm which determines how much fuel to inject. If the TPS is maladjusted such that it reports the throttle as being further open, or further closed, than it really is, the ECU will inject the wrong amount of fuel, making the mixture richer or weaker than it should be.
Apologies, I don’t have a Mandello and the only fuel injected bike I’ve had till my V7 850 was a Ducati ST4 with a mechanically operated TPS which were know to cause issues. I wasn’t aware the Mandello was FBW and didn’t know your level of technical knowledge, which is obviously greater than mine on modern fuel injection . I would agree that it seems likely that the twist grip sensor is probably out of synch in that case?
Hey, @Samurai, please don’t apologise! We can’t possibly know the level of a stranger’s knowledge until we have got to know them a bit, so we just do our best to help. I understand completely and I really appreciate you taking the time to answer.
After all, there seems to be very little comment from fellow V100 owners!
I posed the question on Facecloth yesterday, 2 answers today (so far) first is also getting 1,600 rpm, so you’re not alone. Second is getting 1,400, yet still thinks that is stupidly fast, in his opinion. He’s also getting ‘surging and cutting out’. Otherwise he loves the bike and thinks it’s great.
FWIW I agree with him - even 1400 rpm seems ridiculous to me, and it bugs me disproportionately.
Mine does some slight surging at very low throttle openings, but loads of bikes seem to do that.
The cutting out seems intriguing - I wonder when it happens. I’ve experienced the engine dying under specific conditions. On both occasions I was creeping down a really steep hill with hairpin bends, with the clutch pulled in because even at idle speed in 1st gear it would be too fast. After a couple of minutes like this the engine just stuttered and died. It restarted OK on the button, but seemed to take a second or two to run normally.
This is exactly the sort of issue which prevents me from buying the first generation of a completely new machine, from any manufacturer; too many issues to sort out before the bike becomes reliable and fully usuable. Great bike though, and definitely on my radar. Sorry that I am unable to help you butI am very interested to learn if it gets corrected, and how. Modern bikes, unlike MGs of old, do rev high at tickover as a rule, because they have much lower rotating mass (inertia), with all the benefits that brings.
I had a test drive on a T120 Bonneville a couple of weeks ago. When warmed up, that had a 1000rpm idle, and it was so wonderful compared with the Mandello.
Also, unlike the Mandello, the gearbox was smooth, light, and quiet. The stiffness, the crunching into 2nd, the rear-end-shunt-from-a-bus sensation when selecting 1st, the BANG when changing gear… These things really piss me off and I’m beginning to regret buying the bike.
Oh, and another thing: the Bonnie has actual mudguards! Those on the Mandello are pathetic.
It’s strange how such trivial things can take the pleasure out of owning the bike.
Out of interest, I paid £17,000 for it (in round numbers). That was in February. Less than five months later I was offered £7000 for it against a Bonnie.
That’s right, folks, it has depreciated £10,000 in five months!!
I have not gotten around to testing one yet.
Interesting what you say about the gears because I thought they had supposedly sorted out the issues in that area now. Was yours old stock? It is probably related to the high idle speed though.
As regards the p/x price, I would definitely try another dealer because that doesn’t sound realistic at all. The T120 is another I might try myself. There is an update in the pipeline so best to wait to see what happens for next year for that.
Have you ever ridden a Griso? Now there is a bike. I have 14 bikes and along with my XDiavel, it is my favourite I think. You could get a very low mileage one and it will go up in value, not down. Mine has an Arrow can on it and it sounds great
Late to the discussion. I am one of the owners who replied to Mike on Faceache, with the cutting out and surging comment. To be clear, this only happens in neutral, or with the clutch pulled in, at idle. It cuts out very infrequently, so a minor irritation, but an irritation nonetheless. Otherwise the bike has been excellent over 5,000 miles, and I have no regrets buying it.
I find the V100S is one of the nicest bikes I’ve ridden and I certainly wouldn’t exchange it for a Bonneville. 5000 miles to date and I still find it a pleasure. Mine has not caused me any significant issues, and I find it comfortable for long days in the saddle. The idling speed doesn’t bother me nor does the gear change. The depreciation is a bit ludicrous though but as I tend to keep a bike for 5 years at least doesn’t really wind me up.
Fowlers in Bristol have a used V100S identical to mine with less miles for £11,950 so the quote you got for a trade in is taking the P.
No, I don’t think it’s old stock. I do know the Stelvio has a completely re-engineered clutch and gear cluster, and I’ve been expecting them to upgrade the Mandello at the first model refresh. Interesting to hear that the upgrade might have already happened.
Quite honestly, I cannot believe they thought it was in a fit state to launch, with the clutch and gear change so crap.
I’m afraid all manufacturers are guilty of not thoroughly testing their bikes before release. It happens so often, and reflects very badly in the industry.
) rather than the twist grip. It’s basically the thing that the twist grip connects to which tells the ECU how far you’ve twisted the throttle. The dealer will have to connect it to the PADS diagnostic system to properly adjust it.
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