Looking for members recommendations for V11 battery choice.
I have a V11 Sport I bought 8 years ago and it still has a Spark 500 battery (OEM fit). I can’t imagine it’s the original battery that’s now 24 years old!
I’ve also had a 4 year old Odessey PC545 (basically the same as the OE fit) fail on another V11 after just 4 years
Both batteries maintained using Optmisers
Should I stick with buying another PC545 or look for another brand?
Thanks for any advice!
The PC545 is an excellent choice, but only if maintained correctly. An Optimate won’t charge it more than about 80%. These AGMs really ( really ) don’t like sitting at less than 100% charge. For that you need a proper AGM charger. Odyssey have a list of approved chargers and the Optimate isn’t on it. The reason is that AGMs need to charge at 14.8v, rather than the 14.4v that conventional batteries need. Also in the case of the Odyssey it’s Thin Plate Pure Lead. So Odyssey insist that you use a 5A charger; that’s the car setting on a CTEK mxs5.0. They say the trickle chargers will degrade the battery quite quickly. TPPL batteries need the high initial inrush current to spread the charge over the whole plate, it sort of emulates what an alternator would do. These chargers cost about the same as the fancy batteries, so it’s debatable whether the cost/benefit makes sense; arguably you’d be better off buying a cheap battery every 4 years, but I prefer to ‘do the right thing’ and for it to work more of the time.
I have an Odyssey PC545 that’s over ten years old and was still going strong until the other week. It’s still ok but I think I might have damaged it when my regulator started overcharging, so it might not last through the next winter. I have killed another after about 5 years in the process of discovering the above information.
So, my recommendation ?
The PC545 or the Full Throttle FT185 would be excellent choices. Since discovering them, our branch have become real fans of the Full Throttle batteries.
And a CTEK mxs5.0 or a fancy NOCO charger used on the AGM setting.
And top the battery up using the AGM charger every couple of weeks to make sure it sits at 100%.
I wrote an article about this in Gambalunga about a year ago. I wonder if there’s a place to post technical documents like that on our site.
Oh, BTW, I’m assuming from your post that the PC545 physically fits, which is why those batteries would be my choice.
Andy, very useful information. I wasn’t aware of the battery brand Full River / Full Throttle & that they offer an exact dimensional interchange with the Odessey PC545, which is the correct physical fit for V11’s as it appears to be basically the same battery as the Spark 500 as originally supplied as OE fit by Guzzi
The information regarding charging AGM batteries is also very useful. I will locate that article that was published in Gambalunga
I’m going to order the FT185 battery & see how it performs compared to my other Guzzi’s fitted with the PC545 batteries
If you’re going for the FT185 that’s also TPPL so you should use the car setting for a 5A charge. What I generally do is give it a charge on the car setting until it finishes, but then restart it on the bike ( 0.8A ) setting to top it up. Because it thinks it’s a bigger battery, the car setting stops charging at a higher current threshold than the bike one, hence the top-off.
Given you’ve got several of these AGMs on the go, this might be useful: Once fully-charged using the AGM charger, the Optimate theoretically should keep the same float voltage as the AGM and supply any parasitic current draw preventing the State Of Charge falling below 100%. I’ve not tried it or heard of anyone doing it, though. If it works, it’d mean you’d only need one special AGM charger and just cycle it through your machines giving them full charges and put your Optimates on afterwards to maintain the float voltage.
I’m impressed with the FT, I have one on my LM as a replacement for the Odyssey that died because I hadn’t worked out all that info. The tech data they provide is impressive, but I think the battery seems to be performing even better than the PC545. One of our branch with a Cali had his regulator go short on the way home from Guzzifest. His FT230 shorted to ground and the machine caught fire. The AA recovered him home where he disconnected the battery having been shorted to ground for 5 hours by that time. The battery didn’t seem to want to recover straight away, but three months later we put it back on charge and it seemed to take a charge. We gave it the Odyssey recommended maintenance conditioning and it came back to life. It’s still running his Cali, and I think it’s been two years now. I was impressed and hence my backing for them.
Interesting you talk about the OEM battery on your machine. The US spec CaliEV seemed to have the Odyssey PC680 ( which is the same dimensions as FT230 ) as OEM. I was digging through parts books for a mate and found it. It has part number GU03704550. Presumably it was easier to ship the 'bikes in crates with no battery and source the batteries locally through the concessionaire. Perhaps that’s where they started to move to these types of batteries.
Andy, I’ve ordered a FT185 for the V11 Coppa Italia
Interesting information about the maintenance of AGM batteries. I was under the impression that Optimate 3 & 4’s were suitable for use with AGMs, but I stand to be corrected. If I need to purchase a Ctek Msx5 charger I will; I’ve 3 more Guzzi’s fitted with Odessey PC545 batteries, it would be worth the investment if it’s a better choice of battery maintainer
Firstly, I should say that I’m not an expert, though I’ve found I need to keep trying to become one in this area because there’s so little genuine info made public. So any extra info/corrections add to the pool of knowledge here.
So far I don’t think the Optimates are suitable for general AGM use, and I’m trying to pick my words quite carefully there.
Here’s my logic.
Context. In our branch, and on the forum, we keep hearing stories of poor performance and premature battery failure, and these people are using Optimates and similar.
Reasoning. I haven’t heard of a way yet that we can tell whether a battery is AGM or conventional lead/acid simply by measuring the voltage and current draw across the terminals. CTEK, who have a reputation for producing reassuringly expensive and highest possible tech chargers have a manual selection between conventional and AGM on the front of the charger, which tends to reinforce that conclusion. I believe the NOCO Genius is similar.
The last time I checked, Optimate don’t have this. Now, you could check in the small print in the manual that there isn’t some sort of secret combination of button presses that puts it into AGM mode. If you find there is, please publish that on this thread so that we can update our knowledge base. Thus far, nobody I know has said anything about that. They say they’re suitable for AGMs, and technically, in a way, they are. In maintain mode they output 13.6 v as a float voltage. This is the same maintain/float voltage that an AGM needs. So provided your AGM is fully charged ( to 12.9v ) by a 14.8v charger then connecting it to an Optimate will go into maintain mode, providing parasitic current draw to the machine and maintaining the float voltage required to prevent any internal current. However, if ( as my BMW R1200RS was ) the AGM isn’t fully charged, but has been charged by a conventional system using 14.4 v it’ll have an open circuit voltage of 12.65v, which is fully charged for a conventional battery, then the Optimate will apply its 14.4v and conclude it’s a fully charged battery and maintain it at 75-80% SOC. This is what degrades AGMs quite quickly according to Odyssey’s technical department.
Also, the last time I checked, Optimates have the standard small battery 0.8A current limit. Odyssey insist ( I’m refraining from capitalising that because I HATE shouting…) that you use a 5A charger otherwise the trickle charging will rapidly degrade the TPPL battery.
And that’s why I used the word ‘general’ above.
A few years ago there were several of our branch members who were having battery failures despite being on tenders ( all Optimates if I remember rightly ), replacing them and finding they didn’t last long. After passing my CTEK mxs 5.0 around and doing the Odyssey repair/condition cycling ( I have an old Suzuki turn indicator with croc clips specifically for this ) their ‘knackered’ batteries came to life and were starting their 'bikes ‘before we even hit the button’. They’ve all invested in the CTEK now and haven’t had any problems since.
Now, that’s not proof it works, but it’s supporting evidence.
Please, if you find out anything to the contrary, post it here. I feel the need to keep as up to date on this subject as absolutely possible and this stuff isn’t being publicised very widely; we seem to have to dig quite hard to find it ourselves. More diggers = better knowledge.
Your post has prompted me to look again, and I see that the Optimate 6 Select now has a switch on the front to select between 14.4v for conventional and 14.7v for ‘advanced AGM’. It’s also a 6A charger, so they’ve moved up there, too.
I think that’s a tacit admission that their previous products haven’t been suitable for general use on AGMs.
The essential thing seems to be to look for a charger with manual selection for battery type.
Andy, I’d agree with your opinion regarding earlier generation Optimates. I’ve just looked at the Optimate 6 select & as you state, there is a switch on the front to select the voltage between 14.4v & 14.7v.
If I connect my Optimate 3 or 4 to my spare PC545 battery, after it goes through its testing then charging cycle & indicates that it’s fully charged the battery, the battery struggles to turn over the Guzzi’s big twin for about 5 seconds then dies. Anyway, I appreciate your positive feedback about the Ctek MXS5.0 and how other users have benefited from this charger. I’ve just ordered a Ctek Mxs5. I’ve got 3 x Guzzi’s with PC545’s, plus the FT185 on order, & a Yamaha MT01 & a Vmax with Motobatts. I’ve now looked into what Motobatt Quadflex batteries are, & they also are AGM batteries. For me the investment in the Ctek Mxs5 makes sense & will hopefully save me money in the longer term. Presumably once the AGM battery has been fully charged by the Ctek, it can be maintained at that charge level by the Optimate. So I can simply rotate the Ctek around different bikes when they aren’t being used during the winter. This has been a real education for me because I was unaware of the different voltage charge requirements between a normal lead acid battery & an AGM, and that you first require a higher current for an AGM. This being the case, earlier generation Optimates are clearly not suitable for maintaining AGMs if the battery isn’t already nearly fully charged
Your experience with the failure to start after an Optimate charge cycle is just what our branch found. That’s the ‘poor performance’ and ‘battery failure’ I was referring to earlier. It’s good to have yet another data point to add to our experiences. Your suspect PC545 may be recoverable if you do the repair/conditioning cycle when your new charger arrives. Certainly, we’ve several success stories in exactly this situation. Sometimes they’re just too far gone, but it’s definitely worth a try.
A word of caution with the Motobatts, though. Yes, they’re AGM, but they’re not TPPL. They need the AGM setting, but the high current can cause localised overheating of the plates. You should keep them on the 'bike ( 0.8A ) setting and select AGM mode. Unless you’re willing to experiment with putting one through a 5A charge to desulphate. I’ll be honest, we’ve not had good results from Motobatts. I had one that died while I was learning about AGMs, and thought it was collateral damage along with my hors de combat PC545. But we had another in our branch that simply split its case and leaked acid in the battery area. To be fair, it seemed to start the machine for a while before we realised why the lift strap had rotted. A mate of mine who worked in a 'bike shop dealing with classic machines would refer to the pile of ‘yellow bricks’ in the corner. They didn’t understand why, but they just seemed to be failing after fairly short service; they did deliver great starts when new, however, which is AGMs for you. Great cranking from a small package. We don’t have enough experience to know if Motobatts will give good life if maintained the way they need. You might be the person to give us the data when your CTEK arrives.
I have to say, Odyssey claim their batteries have a design life of 10-12 years when properly maintained and so far my experience backs that up. However, they’re unlikely to last more than 4-5years if we don’t give them what they need. And the FTs so far seem to exceed even their performance. Mine is about 3 years now ( I think ) and still delivering 110% of the claimed Ah and 12.95v OCV when fully charged. You can’t beat that with a stick. What we need to watch is that their manufacturing quality doesn’t slide over the years.
I suppose it’s also true that the FT is the only battery I bought since finding all the info about how to treat AGMs properly, so the others, including that 10 year old PC545 had a few years of abuse before getting the right treatment. Even that one might go on for years yet, despite my regulator fail the other week. BTW, that was seeing charging voltages of about 16-17v from time to time. Ouch.
Thanks for your openness, it all helps find the way forward.
Oh, and BTW, never, never, never use the ‘recon’ setting with an AGM. There just isn’t enough water in the absorbed electrolyte of an AGM for it to survive that treatment. I do think its a CTEK fail not to have locked out that combination. There are posts from people who’ve tried ‘improving’ their AGM’s performance only to find they’ve killed an otherwise functional battery.
The only reconditioning you should use is the conditioning cycle I detailed earlier.
I’ve also had mixed results with Motobatt. I installed one in my MT01 almost 8 years ago & it’s still starting OK, coping with the high cranking current required to start the (very) big twin. Yet I’ve had them fail after only 2years on other bikes. However that was using the aforementioned Optimates as tenders. Thanks for the advice about the Ctek charging current for the Motobatts, & also about the recon setting with the AGM mode.
Frankly speaking none of this information seems readily available in the public domain, and I’m very glad that I reached out to the Guzzi forum. I have been labouring with the misunderstanding that earlier 3, 4 & 5 Optimates could be used for AGMs as well as conventional lead acid batteries, & have been disappointed with what I have thought as short lifespans of Odessey batteries over the past few years without fully understanding the influence of the type of battery maintainer being used. I’ll let you know how this progresses when the FT185 & Ctek arrive
I just realised I didn’t actually detail the AGM conditioning cycle in these posts.
I’ve attached the relevant document for Brand O. Bear in mind that the high initial charge current is only for TPPL batteries, like Odyssey, Optima or Full Throttle. I’m not sure about Yuasa; their wording appears ambiguous and they never mention TPPL. I tried the 5A charge on my Mandello battery the other week and it appeared to like it. Ordinary AGMs should use the 10 hour rate. Unless you feel lucky, punk.
For discharge, I use a 21 or 25W indicator bulb which gives an approximate 8-10 hour discharge on our PC545 or 630 size batteries.
ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf (49.8 KB)
Andy, my Ctek charger has just arrived
I have 3 Guzzi’s fitted with PC545 Odessey batteries, if I connect an Optimate 3 / 4 to them, the Optimate indicates that they are fully charged. There isn’t a problem when I start the bikes, but logically it’s highly likely that these AGMs aren’t fully charged, maybe only 80% as you suggested
Am I OK to connect the Ctek charger to a PC545, and let it bring the battery up to a fully charged condition. In other words I don’t have go through a discharging cycle with these batteries before using the Ctek charger
Obviously for my inoperative PC545 I will follow the instructions you sent to revive a discharged odyssey battery by fully discharging it
You’re absolutely right. Just connect the CTEK to what we suspect is a partially charged battery and let it fully charge.
What might be interesting is to check the Open Circuit Voltage after disconnection from the Optimate. Unfortunately that’d need you to wait overnight for the voltage to settle. Then to connect the CTEK and see what the OCV is after it’s completed.
I guess with that many machines you can start on one battery immediately and let the other two settle to do this check on them. I’m guessing you’ll see OCV of something like 12.6v after Optimate and 12.9v after the CTEK. It’ll hopefully give you some confidence to see the actual difference.
What I expect you to find when you attach the CTEK is it’ll skip through the first few phases quite quickly, because the bulk charge should be pretty much done by the time the Optimate ‘completes’. I expect CTEK to sit in the saturation charge phase for a few hours before completing and lighting the green led.
Even with your dodgy PC545 I’d give it a full CTEK charge before starting the discharge. That’s what I do, anyway. You might find that if there’s battery damage the first charge and discharge go quite quickly. As it repairs it might take longer to charge if it gets some of its capacity back.
Good luck, and let me know how you get on over the next couple of days.
OK, first task for the acted. I’ve connected it to a supposedly fully charged PC545 on another of my Guzzi’s. It was connected to an Optimate last week & indicated fully charged. I note that the acted is on the bulk charging light, suggesting that the battery isn’t really fully charged as the Optimate suggests
The Ctek connectors are unique to Ctek and not compatible with the SAE dongles supplied by Optimate, so have to connect on the battery terminals using the croc clips
Ah yes. I don’t have Optimates but I’ve got a 10A SAE pigtail mounted on the Mandello for the airpump in case of roadside puncture. I made an adaptor up from the CTEK pigtail that came with the charger.
The CTEK pigtails are available from Halfords if you want to change, but given you’ve already got SAE on your fleet, the adaptor might be better idea.
