Dear All,
I have a V11 Sport which has been laid up in the garage for a month and due to work haven’t got round to starting it recently.Unfortunately the battery has mostly discharged and the bike is fitted with a Datatool Evo alarm.
To remove the battery the alaram needs to be put in service mode. At the moment (according to Datatool) there is not a high enough change in the voltage on the ignition isde for the alarm to register this when the ig is turned on hence even with the ignition on the alarm reactivates itself after thirty seconds.
The way around this should be to jump from another battery. I have tried this but with no change in results. When the ignition is turned on the fuel pump whirs etc but just a click from the solenoid when the starter button is pressed. I’ve checked all the fuses.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Martin
Sounds like the usual click no clunk problem. Have a look here
Don-Spada2013-01-04 00:22:20
Have you tried putting the alarm into service mode with the jump leads attached? There should be enough voltage/current to be able to do that. Once done, bring the battery back to life with a trickle charge and start your fault diagnosis proper from there. That will only work, of course, if the alarm’s internal back up battery has enough charge to maintain the alarm if you have to remove the bike’s battery to charge it. The alarm will also drive you insane with it’s bleeping every 15 sec in service mode. Better to charge the battery on the bike if you can (in this instance).
As an alternative, insulate the alarm as much as possible to muffle the sound, remove the battery and charge as necessary. The internal battery on the alarm won’t last that long before it dies, although it’ll seem like an eternity. That might cause alarm problems with arm/disarm functions when it comes to refitting the battery, but I’m not totally sure whether it would or not with that model of alarm.
Aftermarket alarms usually end up causing more problems than they solve, especially those as invasive (in operation) as the datatools. I had one on one of my bikes once - never again!
It could also me a starter issue, but the fact you can’t put the alarm into service mode does lead away from that a bit.
Good luck with it and let us know how you get on.
Thanks, will do. I haven’t had any joy with jumping from the other battery and putting the alarm into service mode so may need to go down the second route you suggest. Datatool themselves suggested I would get synchronisation probelems as a result.
It seems strange that there is till enough life in the battery (even without jumping) for the fuel pump and other functions still to work, I would have thought that there should be enough raise in voltage as a result on the ingition side for this to register with the alarmn but there you go.
Will keep you posted!
Martin
Are you getting a click from the solenoid, or from the start relay?
From the starter relay underneath the seat.
M
Try running a lead from the +ve battery terminal to the spade connector on the top of the solenoid, if it turns the starter over you have enough elektrik in the battery / batteries. If it still won’t turn over then you need more charge.
If you starter relay is clicking under the seat is clicking, you next need to check that the power is getting to the starter solinod on the motor. Remove the start cover and take the light positive off the solinod and check it has power when the starter button is pressed. If it is re-connect and pressing the starter solinod a light but positive knock with a mallet while holding the starter button on.Have you switch out the italian relays for german ones?
For goodness sake, never hit the starter with anything unless you want to replace the whole thing. If it’s a later permanent magnet starter the very good chance is that you will dislodge the magnets, hence expensive new motor.Do as Don says, then check the click, no crank thread in the FAQ section. There is also a thread there on how to check a starter motor. Checking there is power on the end of a bit of wire which has been disconnected, and thus no load on it, will tell you very little.
Brian UK2013-01-05 13:06:46
V11 relays look NO further than “pyro Dan” his relays are less than 1 OEM one, work better and have been in my V11 Le Mans for 5 yrs now without issue the OEM ones lasted under 2 yrs a time, the prev owner had some replaced under warranty and I replaced them afer starting issues after 4 yrs…
Well I have an update and some possibly interesting information.
Having got the head gasket on the car sorted (1976 Relaint Kitten with 200K+ on the clock) I drove down to the garage with all my tools etc. After checking all the connections and swapping around the relays (Bosch) I jumped to the car battery, took the small spade connector off the starter and connected direct as suggested. Low and behold the starter spun over and the machine even made an attempt to fire so tried again and yes it started; got it thoroughly warmed up. This is still with the alarm still arned (!)
I thought this strange so got the multi meter out, disconnected the jump to the car battery and the bike on it’s own was still showing 10.8V which was more than I was expecting to see by far. It then struck me that in my sheer panic about the situation every time I was switching the ignition on it hadn’t registered that it was only the neutral light that was coming on and not the oil / charge light too. A closer look at all the fuses and one of them had gone but only just. A quick swap around and on came the lights as expected, alarm sounded which was quickly turned off and then put into service mocde as I wanted.
So if you can get to the fuse box or isolate the charge light etc you can seemingly still get around the Datatool alarm and get the bike started. Admitadly if you were a thief it would be a lot of work and if you rode off the movement sensor would sound (as it was doing a bit on the sidestand with the bike rocking under the twitch of the engine) however the engine didn’t stop.
New fuese will be bought tomorrow and I will take a look at the wiring underneath to the relays as a slight push on the holder did cause a temporary cut out. Thanks for all our suggestions and help.
I had to replace at fuse box on my V11 Le mans not a difficult job and it is an easily obtainable item I posted the replacement part in either non oem parts OR FAQ
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This is identical and I used the org top. I found once a fuse goes a few times it damaged the terminal causing overload, lesson learned, I now clean it every 6 months.guzzibear2013-01-05 20:03:39
Glad you got it more or less sorted.
It sounds as if there’s been an alarm issue in the past and part of the circuit has been disconnected, unless the blown fuse circuit also acted as a power supply for it (hence no on-off-service functions). I’d have thought that the default setting for the alarm would be “immobilise” rather than “run”, especially with a self arming Cat 1 alarm, but who knows! Was it professionally fitted i.e do you have the installation certificate from the installer? It might be worth a phone call to see if they can shed some light, after all, it shouldn’t be that easy to bypass an alarm system (I know it is for someone with detailed knowledge of the system fitted and intent to do so).
As mentioned already, the fuse box and relays can cause problems as the originals weren’t great. Once replaced/sorted they won’t give too much trouble. I’d have thought most V11s would have had the relays changed by now. I always carry spares with me under the seat. If nothing else, it provides a quick diagnosis on the relays in the event of a breakdown.
One of the features of replacement relays as supplied by Dan is they are all interchangeable the start relay on the OEM is a known problem the replacement ones are higher rating, beware of some aftermarket ones that have a built in diode these DO NOT work on the Guzzi and can cause damage.
This guy was highly reccomended by the late Patrick, many have used these relays Dan is fantastic to deal with I actually phoned him I sent the dosh and he had already posted the relays
He is a real nice guy and bike enthusiast there is a fair bit of info on his web site, I even ordered 3 sets of relays as I used some of these relays for :-
Headlamp dip/main ones on the V1000 improved light output no end
Fog/spot relay on the Virago and V1000 and V11 these are small enough to fit into the headlamp even on the 535 Virago and good enough rated to do the job.
http://www.dpguzzi.com/
http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm
Take a look in non OEM if you want more info on relays or look round Dan’s site
guzzibear2013-01-06 10:09:32
I’ve had a look at the manual and it shows which relays operate the pump, coils, injectors and then ECU from far right to left but what do the other ones do in order?
Thanks
Martin
mjseymo12013-01-07 13:54:08
On the 2002 V11 Le Mans they are as follows
Front-back Start relay MUST be 5 pin
Headlamp Relay 4 or 5 pin
Sidestand Relay 4 or 5 pin
ECU Relay 4 or 5 pin
Injection Relay 4 or 5 pin
The Fuses are as follows
F1 ECU 5A
F2 Pump/coils injectors 10A
F3 Battery re charge cct 30A
F4 Ign key switch 10A
F5 Headlight/horn/start/stop 15A
F6 Dipped lights 5A
F7 Indicators 5A
F8 Solenoid valve fuel 5A
Thanks Guzzibear that’s really useful info.
The saga continues in so much as that when the battery was reconnected after being charged (the internal battery of the alarm seems to have given out but was still in service mode and turned on and off as it should do once the main battery was reconnected) and fuses changed all lights came on with the ignition switch apart from the charge light and no fuel pump whirring or starting when turning over.
I know there had been a slightly dodgy connection somewhere in the relays now confirmed as the ECU relay as when I took the block of them off from the frame there was a dangling little purple wire. It is not obvious which hole or toghether with anohter wire it should live! It is a power wire as when the ig is turned on and off you can feel the click from the other unaffected relays but not the ECU or Injector relay. If you have a look at the photobucket link I hope someone can advise
http://s245.beta.photobucket.com/user/mjseymo/library/#/user/mjseymo/library/?&_suid=1357598846109046892473795298633
Electrics are horrible! How and wheree do I get pin to fit into the block? Is the fuse holder seen in the photo original or is it the inline fuse for the alarm?
Really hope someone can help!mjseymo12013-01-07 23:12:15
It looks as if the purple wire in the third pic has been pulled out of it’s terminal. If that one is live with the ignition on, that’s a possible cause of the the blowing if it shorted on the frame. Have a look on the bases for the relays from where the wires enter underneath. You’ll probably be able to see the terminal inside the block still. The wiring layout into the relay holders will be similar on all of them except for one relay which will have five terminals with wires and not four like the others.
Wiring diagram link below
Wiring diagram link
Having had a very quick look at the diagram above, it might be a wire to the sidestand relay, which is the middle one (assuming the order hasn’t been changed).
Hope this helps.Trevini2013-01-08 06:48:56
Thanks. Looking into the block connector I couldn’t see a terminal from which the wire came, hence posting the picture. The middle would seem the most logical although when the wire is put in there the ECU fuse in the fuse box instantly blows which begs the question whether this was in fact right. Can anyone take a look at their block connectors and take a photo to confirm?
Thanks in advance
Maritnmjseymo12013-01-08 08:46:02
Well the wiring diagram clearly shows the violet wire attached to the top left of the block connector (you’ll have to work out which way up that is).